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Worried about Logic


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in the back of my mind I'm always wondering if they will stop making Logic or basically if Apple will lose interest in it and it won't be very cutting edge any more.

 

I guess I think about this because it seems that Logic 9 has a bunch of glitches, I use Logic 8 and it works fine but I'm hesitant to go to 9. This is especially true because I believe you can't chop up a sample and load it into ESX as contiguous, so it maps the sample across the keyboard.

 

I think that option doesn't work in Logic 9. Am I right about that?

 

But back to the main point, is there any reason to think Logic won't fizzle out? Or what is your opinion on that?

 

Thanks.

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"is there any reason to think Logic won't fizzle out?"

 

glitches/bugs aside ('cause there are always gonna be some, whichever software you use), i am one of those folk who always had faith that apple weren't gonna ditch logic

 

it was clear to me with the apple-isation of logic 8 that they wanted to keep this up at the top of their flagship creative suite

 

apple was always associated with "creative , hip guys ".......("nice.....creative.....safe....creative....wicked, wicked , creative....nice" :D ).....they are still banking on it.....logic is a fantastic deal, no doubt selling countless mac computers

 

logic 8 was a huge amount of work.....logic 9 also has some fantastic goodies and demonstrates apple may be listening (even though they won't tell us so).....the fact that we have already had 2 updates shows that this is far from over yet

 

apple are a business...noone can blame them for prioritising the big jobs, whether it be iphones, other hardware or os updates......but it is clear that they still have a place for logic

 

besides....nothing is forever......all daws cover pretty much the same ground....they are just tools......there are a few folk on here who have been with logic since the start but most of us have had to learn many different systems and ascended many different learning curves....you do what you have to do...

 

it is just a tool to craft your ideas.....chose the tool that is best ( or offers the least obstruction) for getting your ideas down and be happy NOW....

 

if it isn't logic, or you are more interested in putting money into shelf-life then maybe look to protools

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apple are a business...noone can blame them for prioritising the big jobs, whether it be iphones, other hardware or os updates......but it is clear that they still have a place for logic

 

Really? Are you, like, serious?

 

I bring my Porsche in to "Auto Pro Pro Auto Repair" to have the oil changed. The shop is busy, tho... they're rebuilding an engine on a big rig, replacing the tranny on a high end tour bus, and straightening the frame on a Beemer. I say to the mechanic, "hey, looks like you have your hands full. I'll go somewhere else". The mechanic says, "hey, we're Auto Pro Pro Auto -- we'll take care of you! Come back in a hour."

 

One hour later...

 

I come back, pay for the oil change, and drive off. One block away, my engine seizes. Furious, I walk back to the shop and confront the mechanic and ask him what the hell happened. He thought about it for a minute, and then he said, "oh yeah, I drained the oil, put the plug back in the pan, but then the engine fell out of that big rig and I got distracted. So I don't think I actually filled it with oil again."

 

So at that point should I be "understanding" about the situation?

 

Pauvre, pauvre l'Apple.

 

(everything sounds better in French, doesn't it?)

:roll:

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Yes, it pays to shop wisely for a garage when you buy an expensive car. :mrgreen:

 

Now, to your question... do I think Logic's getting neglected? I hope you're not looking for a black and white answer...

 

I believe the answer is both "yes" and "no".

 

Yes: Logic is being neglected in the sense that many highly problematic bugs which existed in Logic 7 (and earlier!!) are still present in Logic 9.

 

No: Logic is not being neglected in that significant features & improvements are added with each major update, and sometimes even with minor updates.

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I was actually thinking the opposite the other day.

 

Think about it this way: Apple is exposing an entire generation of potential users to Garage Band. When a kid gets his or her first (insert instrument of choice), the family computer will already have Garage Band on it. When the time comes to move up, Logic will probably be... well, the logical choice for lot's of people.

 

It's a brilliant business strategy and we could all reap the benefits. Fizzle out? Nah. I think they are just getting started.

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apple are a business...noone can blame them for prioritising the big jobs, whether it be iphones, other hardware or os updates......but it is clear that they still have a place for logic

 

Really? Are you, like, serious?

 

I bring my Porsche in to "Auto Pro Pro Auto Repair" to have the oil changed. The shop is busy, tho... they're rebuilding an engine on a big rig, replacing the tranny on a high end tour bus, and straightening the frame on a Beemer. I say to the mechanic, "hey, looks like you have your hands full. I'll go somewhere else". The mechanic says, "hey, we're Auto Pro Pro Auto -- we'll take care of you! Come back in a hour."

 

One hour later...

 

I come back, pay for the oil change, and drive off. One block away, my engine seizes. Furious, I walk back to the shop and confront the mechanic and ask him what the hell happened. He thought about it for a minute, and then he said, "oh yeah, I drained the oil, put the plug back in the pan, but then the engine fell out of that big rig and I got distracted. So I don't think I actually filled it with oil again."

 

So at that point should I be "understanding" about the situation?

 

Pauvre, pauvre l'Apple.

 

(everything sounds better in French, doesn't it?)

:roll:

 

i´m not saying you should be understanding....that´s not my point

 

the standard criticism is that apple don´t give two shites about logic...that all the developers are involved in os and iphone programming...i think we can see that this isn´t the case.....

 

but......

 

if a bug turned up tomorrow that rendered all snow leopard computers next to useless i would expect that they would prioritise this as the effects would be felt by all new apple computer users (plus many older users)......i believe that logic is important to apple but not so much that they would risk losing many more folk using their computers for day-to-day stuff

 

same with your tour bus......i´ve never been on a tour bus and didn´t realise that transsexuals were ´de rigeur´these days....so i feel it irrelevant to discuss whether the tranny is, or isn´t up to the job (and whether he/she.....or she/he needs replacing :D :roll: :D )....the point is that that tour bus might equal 90% of that companies regular revenue....this might make your porcsche problem slightly less important

 

whether this is good or bad business is another discussion entirely.....and will be different from every angle whether it be the customer, the vendor or the bottom line......

 

where i think your analogy doesn´t ring true is that the garage made a promise to you that they couldn´t and didn´t deliver.....i´m not hearing the same promises from apple....in fact , that is the biggest problem....that noone hears anything

 

if apple was the garage......

 

 

"hey, looks like you have your hands full. I'll go somewhere else"

 

would be met with silence.....in fact the manager would probably look straight through you as if you weren´t there and then continue with what he was doing anyways

 

and

 

"I'll go somewhere else" would mean giving up your porsche and buying another make of car, entirely.....

 

if you chose to stay with the porsche i guess you could just sit in the garage until someone tripped over you and realised you might have a problem

 

i´m still waiting in the garage......turns out that i´m becoming a bit of a nuisance.....

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I knew you'd pick up on 'tranny' LOL!

 

Anyway, my analogy was based on the inference I made from your post that we should be understanding of Logic's (purported) lowly place in the pecking order. And back in the L7 and L8 days I was one of those sang loudly (and in tune, I hope) in the "Apple doesn't care about Logic" chorus. But here we see two L9 updates in very short order, so it gives me hope that maybe Apple is going to continue on this course.

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I think this is a simple question, as always, I put myself in the shoes of the subject.

 

In this case Apple's impetus to develop and expand/maintain Logic is twofold, to sell their big machines (they just had one of their best quarters ever, and primarily because of the big machines) and to continue to move people from proprietary systems to native systems, which will always need more native power (really still just selling more Macs).

 

All of their strategies in the market are about drawing consumers back to their core business, which is selling big Macs. iPhone, Itunes, iPods, various softwares etc etc, it's all about getting people into their eco-system and keeping them there, which from a business standpoint is very good business, and it's working for them big time.

 

As to the pretty shoddy development curves and the sometimes glaringly major flaws, I think that will continue. As long as there is ENOUGH there to keep people in the fold, that's all they have to do, and I think it's what they will continue to do.

 

My hope is that as they expand their Native user base, they will feel more pressure as well as see benefits in fully maturing their individual updates (i.e., fully fleshing out/fixing 9 before ever going to a "10") and their benefit will be to become not only obvious choice for the mid to low level buyers, but also the higher end buyers, who can then focus on outboard gear (bigger, badder Mac, convertors, pres mics etc) and have that decision make sense on the ground, and not just as a fantasy.

 

That's how I see it, and I hope that Apple will see it that way too. But I'm not convinced of it, my iPhone shows me that they are about to make some HUGE mistakes in THAT market, and that could be an indicator of other choices that are similar....

 

If it's not obvious, I'm a Apple stockholder who has interests in this from several directions...

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These responses aren't really encouraging or discouraging, but right down the middle. Just enough to keep me with Logic but always wondering if I'll regret that decision.

 

Sounds like you worry too much. Are you happy with Logic 8? If so, then who cares what happens in the future? Music won't magically change in 10 years time so that what you can create on Logic 8 is no longer any good. I personally will never (never say never?!) upgrade Logic 8 or indeed my OS or any of my plugins - just no need really.

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These responses aren't really encouraging or discouraging, but right down the middle. Just enough to keep me with Logic but always wondering if I'll regret that decision.

 

Sounds like you worry too much. Are you happy with Logic 8? If so, then who cares what happens in the future? Music won't magically change in 10 years time so that what you can create on Logic 8 is no longer any good. I personally will never (never say never?!) upgrade Logic 8 or indeed my OS or any of my plugins - just no need really.

 

you're already missing out on some great new stuff.......sure, maybe you don't need it but you might find that although the end product is the same, the workflow improvements would save you headaches and hugely increase your productivity and amount of output

 

my money would be on you eating your words/hat/anything else that's applicable...(or semi-tasty)

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Yes, improvements that would no doubt tax my computer more and cause CPU problems, as well as unnecessarily hurting my wallet. Add to that problems caused by changes in workflow. It might not be valid for the OP, but for me, staying with LP8 is a no brainer. And worrying about whether Apple will continue to support it is a no brainer for me. It doesn't matter.
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Yes, improvements that would no doubt tax my computer more and cause CPU problems

 

actually...the likelihood is that if you aren't chasing the latest romplers and megasynths, that you will find that maybe the improvements have the effect of being able to better use the available resources...people are already discovering this with logic9

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actually...the likelihood is that if you aren't chasing the latest romplers and megasynths, that you will find that maybe the improvements have the effect of being able to better use the available resources...people are already discovering this with logic9

 

Specifically what are you using that better uses the available resources with L9 than L8?

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apple are a business...noone can blame them for prioritising the big jobs, whether it be iphones, other hardware or os updates......but it is clear that they still have a place for logic

 

Really? Are you, like, serious?

 

I bring my Porsche in to "Auto Pro Pro Auto Repair" to have the oil changed. The shop is busy, tho... they're rebuilding an engine on a big rig, replacing the tranny on a high end tour bus, and straightening the frame on a Beemer. I say to the mechanic, "hey, looks like you have your hands full. I'll go somewhere else". The mechanic says, "hey, we're Auto Pro Pro Auto -- we'll take care of you! Come back in a hour."

 

One hour later...

 

I come back, pay for the oil change, and drive off. One block away, my engine seizes. Furious, I walk back to the shop and confront the mechanic and ask him what the hell happened. He thought about it for a minute, and then he said, "oh yeah, I drained the oil, put the plug back in the pan, but then the engine fell out of that big rig and I got distracted. So I don't think I actually filled it with oil again."

 

So at that point should I be "understanding" about the situation?

 

Pauvre, pauvre l'Apple.

 

(everything sounds better in French, doesn't it?)

:roll:

 

Why would you take your car to a place like that????

 

Go here:

 

Aurel and Don's.

4429 Lankershim Blvd

North Hollywood, CA 91602

Phone: (818) 980-6802

 

They work ONLY on Porsche. They have been in business since the late 50s. I have been taking my 911s there since the mid 80s. Always top notch work.

 

As to Apple ditching Logic (and let's not just limit it to that - let's say ALL Apple Pro-Apps). There is always that risk. It's not limited to Apple. For that matter you have the same risk just buying a Mac. If they dump it, I will move on to the next thing that replaces it running on whatever hardware is appropriate.

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There's always a risk that Apple will drop Logic, drop Final Cut Pro, or drop making hardware, to focus solely on iPhone/iPods, or that they will go bankrupt, or that the economy will go into depression, or that you get hit by a car...

 

But while you're worrying whether or not Logic will die, or whether or not you should use Pro Tools for recording vocals.... others are busy producing music with whatever they have now, and they're getting a step ahead of you. Don't let that happen.

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Specifically what are you using that better uses the available resources with L9 than L8?

 

not me, personally, but i have read posts by 'ashermusic' on this forum making some interesting discoveries by offsetting ram settings in esx24 and getting a much better memory usage/footprint than before

 

i think the software will get a little more refined with each revision, not forgetting the whole 64bit thing.....whatever that is :oops: :D

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not me, personally, but i have read posts by 'ashermusic' on this forum making some interesting discoveries by offsetting ram settings in esx24 and getting a much better memory usage/footprint than before

 

i think the software will get a little more refined with each revision, not forgetting the whole 64bit thing.....whatever that is :oops: :D

 

He's the only person I've seen post that they have seen improvements, nobody else on here has been able to duplicate those results that I've seen. Considering how many people have had worse resource use in 9, I wouldn't assume things will be better until you've tried it yourself and actually seen an improvement firsthand. Same goes for blaming instruments that are newer or bigger, I've seen the same thing regardless of how big instruments are and how old or new they are. Just today I read a post from someone running into the memory limitations with audio tracks only, no software instruments at all. It would be nice if Logic got more efficient with each revision, but while there's sometimes a bit of that with the bugfix releases, the opposite is often true with the major releases (same thing happened going from L7 to L8 ). Unfortunately, many apps get bloated the more features are added - the Logic devs have even admitted this is the case with L9.

 

A 64 bit release should solve this one particular problem, hopefully we'll see it before too long.

 

I'd encourage you to test things for yourself and see if 8 is an improvement over 9 on your particular system.

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in the back of my mind I'm always wondering if they will stop making Logic or basically if Apple will lose interest in it and it won't be very cutting edge any more.

Good thing you're not my stock analyst! Obviously you haven't been keeping up on the "business" news, but Apple hired Avid/Digidesign's chief technology officer Dave Lebolt, aka the guru of Pro Tools, just a few months ago. You can read about it here:

http://www.prosoundnews.com/blog/23284

 

Whenever you want to know what a company like Apple is going to do in the future, just look at who they're hiring now!

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I think it would be "Logical" for logic to continue to develop, I see the addition of Dave Lebolt to be a beginning of merging the Video and Audio sides at Apple software.

 

As a primary job, I was a photographer for more than a decade and even now that digital has surpassed film and is affordable, the newest trend is video frame capture and editing to a perfect 1 of 30 photos taken per second. I shot concert footage often this is a huge advantage, as shooting someone singing, 98% of the time the facial expressions make it look as if the singer was defecating :oops: the ability to zoom in and pick the perfect millisecond of perfection makes the job easier, for editing.

 

Logic has done the very same thing in it's growth over the years, from midi sequencing and basic audio capture to where we are with LP9. Next up will be full integration with 64 bit I'd guess, then 128 bit then 256 bit, it will never stop (hopefully), but use what you want and are comfortable with as long as it meets your needs.

 

Heck up until my purchasing LP9 I still did my studio messing about with my Atari ST and C-Lab Creator/Notator, MastertracksPro, and Intelligent Music "M" programs. It suited my needs and didn't cost anything since I already owned it. For what I was using it for it was "my perfect world".

 

Now I have taken the plunge bought some new tools, computers, drives, interface, controllers, etc., and am recording a project with a friend again, our needs changed, I would have loved to have had the power of today back in early 1991. 8)

But since I never did audio after my old band broke up only midi and samples. I had found a set up that just always worked for me. That doesn't seem as possible to ever do again with the way upgrades go now.

 

Microsoft became so big by doing software not hardware, and if Apple ever lets that really happen I believe Logic/FinalCutPro will not die off but eventually merge into a production software suite. Apple seems to have a fire lit under them as it plays to software, they have gone after photographers with Aperture, an excellent challenge to Photoshop as a fast/powerful photo editing program, FCP rules the film industry now, Logic is fast becoming the DAW of choice for many top producers, Keynote blows Powerpoint away for presentations. Apple seems to be on a good roll lately, and I not only think they will continue to do so, I bet in stock that they will, (I'm doing pretty well so far there :D ).

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Wasn't Logic 9 never supposed to see the light of day?

 

I mean hey ..Apple's delivered L9 and two small updates but they clearly

have no desire to move this product forward

 

I guess we're just pre-funking for the

 

"There will never be a Logic Pro 10" threads due in a year or so.

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As a quick note, unless Apple makes some moves, Android will be giving the iPhone a serious run in the near future. Open Source, Open Dev, Google Voice, tethering etc etc, and I'm a shareholder with a large money investment in Apple doing well....

 

I think it will hopefully be a great thing for the iPhone to have a successful competitor. They're going to have to keep improving to compete, meaning we'll have a better product. At least that's how I hope things will turn out.

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