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Apple clarifies Logic 9's memory management


Chris

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Thanks for the link! That helps understand a little more about what happens behind the scenes when I keep running out of memory. But why the heck do they insist that a "typical project" should need nowhere near 4GB... almost every project I work on constantly hits that limit. :P
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After some testing, this does not seem to be true at all.

 

I have 6 GB on my machine, and when I open up Logic I have a fair amount above 4 GB free. In fact, even when Logic is open with an empty project - the activity monitor shows over 4 GB free.

 

Then I created an instrument track with Akoustik Piano on it, and started to duplicate the track. Each track seem to add about 200 MB to Logic's memory allocation which seems about right. The "memory getting low" message appears after a couple of tracks, according to Apple this happens when Logic has less than 600MB left to allocate. However when this message appears the activity monitor shows 2.26 GB allocated within Logic and 1.93 GB free.

 

After a few more tracks Logic quits, and just before it does so the activity monitor shows Logic's memory allocation the very moment when the sh*t hit the fan. According to Apple this happens when Logic has less than 100 MB to allocate. My activity monitor now shows 2.78 GB allocated within Logic, and 1.45 GB free.

 

I did this test with several different plug-ins and with different amounts of free memory to begin with. It seems to consistently quit at around 2.78 GB. What's holding on to that last GB of memory that Apple claims Logic can use?

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Totally unhelpful article imho. I've had projects with minimal open where after jamming on a piano sound for a few minutes trying to get some ideas down - Logic runs out of memory. The memory counter can be up to 2.2Gb used. Upon a reboot - it is down to 800mg. To me this means there currently is something wrong with the way ram is being passed around this program! I've had memory issues loading up sessions from 2006 that did not strain my old G5.

Apple please fix this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Yep, I have had similar experiences. I have one song in particular that has been acting really strangely. Sometimes I open the song, press play, and Logic immediately tells me I'm out of memory and exits. This might repeat a couple of times in a row. Then, after the 5th time I open the song, Logic suddenly works like a charm (although it might give me the low memory warning). There's some odd random element to this whole memory issue.

 

It would help a lot if Logic had some kind of memory monitor / manager that clearly shows how much memory you have free, how many plugins your project has, and how much memory each one uses, etc. Would be much easier to hunt down the worst memory eaters, and monitor what's going on. Logic does have some ancient memory info dialog, but it tells nothing useful. Of course you can keep the Activity Monitor open and try to track Logic's total memory consumption while you add and remove plugins, but it could be so much easier...

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There was always a Memory Management window, it is called Activity Monitor. A lot of Logic users used it to see how close they are operating along the cliff. I too operate most of the time along that memory threshold. My windows setup always has the Activity Monitor open in the corner, and I can see if I could squeeze another Stylus plugin in. Even opening up the Loop Browser could gobble up 200MB and send Logic over the cliff.

 

Now entering the wonderful world of Snow Leopard and Logic9. The Activity Monitor is now completely useless. It seems that with the 32bit vs 64bit mess the Memory readings are all over the place or at least they are different and make no sense in the usual 4BG limit world. Right now my Logic's crash point is around 1.5GB VM. At least I get that automatically saved message before it disappears (at least sometimes)

 

Please Apple do us all a favor and bring out the 64bit Logic version to get rid of that Memory Management so I can go back concentrating to manange other stuff like ... making music.

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"Right now my Logic's crash point is around 1.5GB VM."

 

Good to know I'm not alone. I've learned not to load any more EXS (or even 2.0 Vienna Instruments) when the VM approaches 1.5 GB.

 

I haven't read the article (but thanks for posting it). Nevertheless, at the end of the day, I need to know only where MY computer crashes. I don't see the 4 GB limit reflected in Activity Monitor. And the assumption that 4 GB was the limit lead to my mis-diagnosing of crashes that were simply memory overload.

 

These were further obscured because I'd crash after a Vienna Instruments 2.0 instantiation. "Er... this can't be a memory crash because I'm nowhere near 4 GB, and I'm working with VI." Wrong on both counts.

 

Yes, Activity Monitor is imperfect and non-specific. But it does give me a danger number, and I've learned (the hard way) to keep my eyes on it as I work.

 

Know your VM crash limit.

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I have to agree with what has already been said, little info we didn't already know, and it's not consistent with actual user experience.

 

L9 often crashes long before 3.9 gigs used. It clearly is not as memory efficient as 8 in many cases since so many users are unable to open sessions that open fine in L8 (or L7).

 

On the one hand, it's nice that Apple is acknowledging that users are complaining about it, but it's sad that instead of trying to improve things at all, they are just making excuses and pretending the problem doesn't exist.

 

That's not good enough, Apple really needs to code a 64 bit version or provide a similar fix.

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Unfortunately I have had this out of memory problem again this morning. So I have been looking here to see if we are any closer to a 64bit/solution.

 

I've just read the link and now I'm even more annoyed.

 

"Projects that use a very large number of sampler instruments, plug-ins, or tracks may cause the memory address space used to grow toward the 3.9 GB limit, but most projects will fall well below the threshold".

 

Are they trying to be funny? As said in the posts above, people that are trying to use this application for serious work are running out of memory. This is a serious problem.

 

Logic 9 is not just an audio editor. It is supposed to be a professional DAW, which means you should be able to use multiple sampler instruments, plug-ins and multiple tracks provided you have the hardware. There is nothing more frustrating than seeing this message all the time on an expensive Mac Pro with more than 4GB of memory.

 

I find myself opening closing projects juggling plug-ins around to enable me to finish projects. My biggest problem is getting Trillian to play ball, but that's another story.

 

Having to monitor Activity Monitor instead of working reminds me of being on XP years ago and having to close background services etc just to be able to run the application.

 

Rant over.

 

Now back to work and also watching my OSX memory allocation.

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Unfortunately I have had this out of memory problem again this morning. So I have been looking here to see if we are any closer to a 64bit/solution.

 

I've just read the link and now I'm even more annoyed.

 

"Projects that use a very large number of sampler instruments, plug-ins, or tracks may cause the memory address space used to grow toward the 3.9 GB limit, but most projects will fall well below the threshold".

 

Are they trying to be funny? As said in the posts above, people that are trying to use this application for serious work are running out of memory. This is a serious problem.

 

Logic 9 is not just an audio editor. It is supposed to be a professional DAW, which means you should be able to use multiple sampler instruments, plug-ins and multiple tracks provided you have the hardware. There is nothing more frustrating than seeing this message all the time on an expensive Mac Pro with more than 4GB of memory.

 

I find myself opening closing projects juggling plug-ins around to enable me to finish projects. My biggest problem is getting Trillian to play ball, but that's another story.

 

Having to monitor Activity Monitor instead of working reminds me of being on XP years ago and having to close background services etc just to be able to run the application.

 

Rant over.

 

Now back to work and also watching my OSX memory allocation.

 

Well the statement IS true if you only used those that come with Logic, but obviously we do not.

 

That said, I repeat, you will have the same issue on the Mac with DP, PT, Cubase, etc. It is as 32 bit issue, not a Logic issue per se, so by your definition of a pro DAW, at this moment in time on the Mac, there are none because with ALL of them, most MORE than Logic, you will have to "monitor Activity Monitor and work."

 

Until things are 64 bit on the Mac, VE Pro and/or Bidule are your answer. I was at a well known rock star's studio last week. He was getting lots of low memory warnings. I simply installed VE Pro, loaded Trillian and Omnisphere in it and took them out of the Logic project and combined with his Gigastudio that he still wanted to use as he is used to it, the low memory warnings have totally gone away for him. We could easily have replaced the Gia orchestral stuff with Kontakt based libraries in VE Pro thanks to the memory server, had he wanted to.

 

You can deal with this stuff as you think it SHOULD be and grumble or you can deal with it as it is. You know what I recommend.

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Hi Jay,

 

My apologies for hi jacking this post, but thought this might help or bring up even more questions.

 

I am currently trying to set up Ensemble Pro with Logic on my iMac 3.06 and both an Ensemble Pro 32 bit server( Epic Orch ) and a 64 bit server( Kontakt, CS80v, Mach5 v2 and some Komplete 5 instruments ) on my G5 quad with 16 gigs.

 

My understanding is that this should work well, but I'm still tweaking. When it finally starts to work, I will try to post the results.

 

Good sight, with kind helpful people.

 

Thanks

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This post completely explains my 3 hour headache last night. My question is this. Why does Logic quit and crash when it hits the limit? It would be so much better if it just wouldn't play or if it stopped and told you to change things. But like so many are saying here, I have all but 3 instruments frozen and Logic should be able to easily handle this. I insert another instrument and CRASH.

 

I am new to Logic. Is this common that Logic just crashes and quits when you hit the limit? Talk about an unstable guessing game.

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Also, is this common?

 

http://img.skitch.com/20091125-ed71yta3wm6iyghrrtjyqgewxk.jpg

 

Every track but one is frozen on a 23 track project. I am on a Mac Pro 2.6 Xeon with 11 GB of RAM (of course only 4 are used). My RAM reads at 3.5 GB and I am getting memory warnings like crazy. It almost seems like all the instruments are still loaded. When I load my projects, I see the progress bar for all of my instruments.

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More than ever, I wonder why DAWs don't run *all* plugins as separate processes (or, say, all plugins on each channel strip) so that a single buggy plugin won't bring down the whole program. This would also solve the 4GB memory problem (or at least make it a LOT harder to encounter).

 

Safari 4 does this with Internet plugins. Why not audio programs with audio plugins?

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Along a similar line of thought, a stand-alone EXS plug-in could be of help, even if it was 32-bit. That might allow it to access a full 4 GB on its own.

 

Dizzi45Z, Logic sometimes saves a file with "crashed" at the end of the original file name. You get the crash prompt, and then it tells you it saved the file. But I can't trace a pattern as to when this file is created and when it's not.

 

I'll treat myself to a specious, invented statistic and say about 50% of the time, Logic saves before crashing.

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I'm getting the warning at around 1.7 gbs of actual memory being used. I don't think I ever make it to 2 gbs (and I have 10gbs installed). I was watching my activiity monitor for 3 hours today when working on a small project that was "pushing" the envelope by getting a little above 1.7gbs of ram....Am I missing something?
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I'll treat myself to a specious, invented statistic and say about 50% of the time, Logic saves before crashing.

 

Phbbbt! :P

 

I'd say it's probably at least sometimes around 55%!

 

I'll throw in my vote. With me, it is has been less than 30% of the time. Probably even less than 20%.

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The memory problem does not only depend on how many plug ins you are loading!

I had the same with just a blank song.

After some time Logic is eating more & more RAM.

Of course with a plug loaded song you reach the limit much faster !

The trouble started in Logic 8, when they added the Multiprocessor support,

but i wasn't aware of it, because it just crashed with no warning.

But with L9 it got even worth.

My studiopartner is running basically the same system and plugs with only one exception: Just 1x quad, me 2 x

He never got the message.

Funny enough he can open more plugs than i can in Logic

It looks like, if you are using more processors,the more RAM is needed in Logic.

I also double checked it in Abelton,loaded a lot of fat plugs (10 x Stylus, 4x Omisphere, 8 x Kontakt, 2 x Trilian) no problems with RAM at all.

If you can only use Logic plugs, they should cut the Pro out of Name!

This issue is really effecting my work!

Edited by Jaspa
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Forget it, Apple have never listened to user feedback, or Logic wouldn't be looking/working the way it is today. We'll just have to hope that the group working on Logic get the idea to do something about this on their own. Until then, I am on Leopard and Logic 8. Fortunately for me, I am almost solely using Kontakt 3.5 + VSL for sample heavy work. BTW, anyone running Logic 8 on Snow Leopard with succes or is that a no go?
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Hi Ski

 

 

Vienna Ensemble Pro:

 

http://vsl.co.at/en/65/71/1738/1356.vsl

 

Basically it is a VSL/AU host which will work on one or more macs/PC's, data (MIDI + Audio) transmitted via gigabit enet.

 

32bit and 64bit versions of the server are available.

 

 

Seems to work pretty well (though I gather not with EW Play)

 

 

HTH

 

 

CCT

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Seemingly Apple has described in their support document what they intended Logic 9 to behave like. If it really worked like that it would be a sensible way for Logic to work.

The fact that the Logic's memory seems to leak and in addition the protection mechanism jumping in much too early seems to imply that there are flaws in the implementation. Assuming that Apple is not aware of this I'd suggest that everyone who has this problem files a *detailed* bug report (especially the developers in our community) or sends feedback about Logic 9. It's vital that you include all the details about the actual memory being used and if possible provide an example project that demonstrates the problem. From my own experience Apple DOES listen if you give them enough information and don't start ranting.

 

So please, let's try to make Apple aware of the real problem, and not of what they believe is the problem.

 

Cheers,

 

Jazz

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Thanks CCT! :D

 

If you get it, call me and I will help you set it up.

 

Jay (pardon the interruption, ski :) ), it specifies that PPCs are not actively supported (though they say it works). Have you tried setting a system up between a PPC and an Intel machine?

 

Not yet, but I have heard from others who have and they say it works fine. Gigabit ethernet is really the only requirement.

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That said, I repeat, you will have the same issue on the Mac with DP, PT, Cubase, etc. It is as 32 bit issue, not a Logic issue per se, so by your definition of a pro DAW, at this moment in time on the Mac, there are none because with ALL of them, most MORE than Logic, you will have to "monitor Activity Monitor and work."

 

While all 32 bit apps are limited to 4 gigs of memory, there's much variation in how much can be squeezed out of that amount. I'd be curious to see how those other apps actually compare when using the same third party sample libraries, are they less efficient than Logic in this respect?

 

Sure, there are workarounds for Logic. But at some level of jumping through hoops I have to wonder if it would be easier to just get a 64 bit PC and run a 64 bit audio app that can use all available memory without all the rigamarole.

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