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Logic for live performance


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Hello, I am looking to use logic for live performing and I've noticed that when I would use logic to play a sequence inside a club sound system or any PA System, that the definition of the music is not the same as it would be inside my studio speakers (mackie 824's)! The clarity and dynamics is not clear and crisp and the synth solo's that I play are not the same! Is there any type of configuration or set-up on the environment window that I need to know to achieve the result and sound that I would hear on my Studio Monitors! I am basically using my sound cards outputs (XLR F & Male) and plugging them in directly into the Clubs sound system Mixers! Logic has some of the Best Synths I've ever heard and I would love for the audience to get the same feeling as being in my studio Thank You! And Also, another thing I've noticed thats Kinda off my topic but F**k it, and hopefully someone else would agree with me on this is that The overall feel and (smell lol, U kno what I mean) of logic comparing to protools is alot more duller! Protools Just seems alot more crisp and clean! Is there any kind of hardware or software that I could use to bring turn the notch up for clarity, Dynamics, and just overall better sound! Money is not an obstacle so whatever it is, Shoot it over here!
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Welcome to the real world. Yes, rooms of different sizes do sound different, as do speakers of different dimensions, as does audience in different sizes. That's how it is. Get used to it and mix accordingly.

 

As for the claim of Logic being dull where ProTools is crisp, I am sure you can provide a valid example of that, which means the same source files through the same number of channels with the same fader settings, without any plugins and bounced to the same format in both systems. Post those two mixes and we'll comment.

 

Christian

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The environment has nothing to do with it.

 

I would recommend a comprehensive approach to metering with the same reference material (and the same meter-- maybe a Waves PAZ or other high quality plug or external monitoring suite such as Spectre). Taking measurements is the only way to be sure. A background in audio engineering helps. In lieu of this, sometimes the best way is to grab a third party plugin such as WaveWindow and do some A/B sine wave testing. Are you seeing distortion for some strange reason? Are you clipping Logic's master out?

 

I always find it funny to hear people criticizing a sequencer without providing solid A/B comparisons. Are you feeding the same tracks through both ProTools and Logic-- comparing things using the same high quality meter? Are you absolutely certain that you have parity on the metering? Again, checking for clipping or distortion on Logics Master Out?

 

Metering and proper levels are a big part of the equation-- it is important to be able to view things objectively.

 

By the way-- a large (and obvious) part of the equation is the quality of the source material. If you're playing 128kbps AAC through Logic and you jack a 320kbps MP3 into Pro Tools-- well, its pretty reasonable to expect Pro Tools to sound a bit better. Also, a high quality DAC is something that should never be overlooked...the quality of the clocking is extremely important to extracting every bit of detail out of even a highly degraded source like MP3.

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No problem. Hopefully you're able to get things sorted.

 

Two really good tools on the metering front are Spectrafoo (really pricey) and Spectre (very affordable). I prefer Spectre. I can't recommend that tool enough.

 

I'm not sure if Pro Tools allows you to load up the Apple AUNetSend plugin (I don't see why it wouldn't). If it does, you could quickly get a signal from ProTools (channel or master) routed into Spectre (via destination IP address 127.0.0.1). And then, you could do the same from Logic. This would be an interesting way to visually compare the two. Just be sure to use a stable source from an oscillator plugin (ideally, the exact same high quality plugin in for both hosts). You could even run a full track through on one sweep (representing this in one color) and then do a second sweep in another color. Make sure Spectre is configured to leave a record of each sweep as an individual color. For extra credit-- run two of these tests-- one for RMS (or perceived range), and one for peak (for max deflection).

 

I would be surprised to hear about significant variances across the two tools when using the same source material, no DSP plugins, and a thoughtful approach to metering.

 

Also, here's another trick that instrument manufacturers sometimes employ-- watch for extreme stereo imaging of a signal. This can sometimes be perceived as great when taken alone. Often times, synths presented in this way sound like garbage in the mix-- afterall, they need to sound great on their own right? I'm not saying Emagic/Apple was/is guilty of this but sometimes you need to watch for that type of 'hyping' when you run across a preset.

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Well, this thread is really off and running, innit?

 

And Also, another thing I've noticed thats Kinda off my topic but F**k it

 

Eh, wrongo pal... we have guidelines here which ask that you discuss one topic per thread. You eh, have read the Forum Guidelines, haven't you? Let's see... [ examine's the bottom of Jon's posts ]. Oh dear, apparently you have not, as your system's info doesn't appear in your signature either.

 

Tsk.

 

So, OK, you seem all ticked off and whatnot about sound quality and so forth. Fine. Still, we just ask that you respect this place and not throw too much sh•t against the wall at one time.

 

Now, as to the different environments, your home studio and clubs... How can you possibly compare the two? Studios monitoring and PA's are two entirely different animals. And every club is going to be different, just like every studio is going to be different. Mixes don't just automatically translate from one room to the next, not even in big studios.

 

And... Mackie 824's are notorious for being hyped in the high end. I know cuz I have the same ones. If it sounds all sizzly and sweet in your home studio then unless you compensate for this, you have to anticipate that your mixes will sound dull out in the real world.

 

Also, we have no idea how good or bad your engineering chops are. Just because you can put great tracks together doesn't mean you know how to mix them for "universal" playback out in the world. Or, who knows, maybe you do know how to mix. But honestly, if you don't know to expect that your homebrew tracks won't necessarily translate to a club (and different ones at that) then you probably have to do some homework.

 

So, there's my lil' contribution to this thread. And putting my moderator hat back on again, please add your system info to your profile and take a minute to read the guidelines.

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Thanx SKI, Mah man, and sorry, I guess it's not normal too ask simple questions in a complicated world lol, but I do respect this website and every individual In it! Much respect!
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Also keep in mind that most club PAs are mono. That's quite a different sound from your stereo mix in and of itself.

 

FWIW, many dance producers actually use a PA system to mix on, just because it sounds so different than a regular pair of studio monitors. Then again, playing a big PA loud in a big room is going to sound entirely different from playing them at normal level in a studio.

 

Just the tricks of the trade.

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  • Solution
I don't have any experience with engineering, Im Just doin the best with what I got! I perform a mixture of Low tempo Dance music mixed with alittle bit of Hip Hop Live! I Produce the master beat, and Play My Synths on top of the productions I make Live all in ONE Logic sequence, and Trying to get the best possible sound in any club or venue I go too! I got much too learn but hey, this is a FORUM where You can express freely!
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First time I prepared a track to be played in a club I was SHOCKED to hear it on the PA at full volume in front of an audience. It was nothing like what I expected (from what I'd heard on my monitors in the studio). So I can relate. I took mental notes (need less bass, guitar should be less agressive, blah blah) and back to the studio, remixed, back to the club, not quite there yet, more mental notes, etc.. it's just a lot of back and forth until you can learn how the mix will translate from the studio to the club and get better at mixing for the club without actually having to go there.
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Soo David, How would I translate from a stereo Mix in Logic that is being played straight off my computer ON a MONO PA system? I guess it wouldn't make much difference but would I Need A DAT or what?
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Soo David, How would I translate from a stereo Mix in Logic that is being played straight off my computer ON a MONO PA system? I guess it wouldn't make much difference but would I Need A DAT or what?

 

That doesn't matter. A CD player, a DAT, an ADAT, an mp3 player, a wav file player, a MacBook... whatever can play your tracks with the quality you need.

Edited by David Nahmani
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did you read my 2nd to last post Dave? I am trying to achieve mastered tracks but that's not really bounced or mixed at all, because I am using synths that I am playing that is being sidechained through the whole output of my track! any advice?
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I don't think I need evidence!

It's not about you needing evidence, it's about the rest of the world needing evidence when you claim something. I'm sure you are convinced of your thesis, but everyone else wants proof. So, provide the examples that Damian and I asked for and you'll have a discussion going.

 

Christian

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