Mojave Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 (edited) ====================================================================== Moderator's Warning: Do NOT turn up your monitors to hear this as the poster has suggested. It will kill your ears The problem is easy enough to hear at normal listening levels. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED Original post continues below... ====================================================================== Turn up your monitors. As each pass occurs the volume gets lower. Apple Logic Team does not know. I did a screen recording to show it with a Microphone. For the large monitor guys POP!.MOV Smaller view, should work on everyones screen BTW David, your book Kicks But, Great work man. Using my highlighter to keep track of the many many great tips! Very happy with the book and lesson plan! [/url] Edited November 24, 2009 by Mojave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to show. This insanely large size frame is mostly empty, so I don't know what I'm looking at. You seem to be re-starting a quiet range several times in arow with a reverb tail dying off, is that it ? That's an old and thorny Logic bug about it not correctly telling plugins to empty their buffers on Stop. Apple points fingers at plugin developers which return the favour. Happens with Logic's own plugins too sometimes, so there you have it. If Apple Logic Team says they don't know, they're either lying or not Apple Logic Team, presumably the former. Christian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojave Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 (edited) Sorry about the screen size, I have a 30 inch display. I guess it did the recording in 30 inch mode. Smaller view, should work on everyones screen . Yes I am restarting it over several times. At the beginning. The track starts at bar 2, At bar 1.74 I have big POP with a noticeable verb. So emptying out the buffers? I guess that is possible but this is before the track starts. As I said, each time I start it over, it gets lower in volume. I think the second time it got louder and more pronounced but every time after that it lowers in velocity and attack. Edited November 22, 2009 by Mojave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) It happens precisely when Logic resumes processing audio for that track so what you hear is a leftover from your play prior to that. It is a quite convoluted affair, else they would have fixed it long ago, I guess. Actually, it happens because one of Logic's strengths, so that's why they don't just kill it off. Logic's audio engine is only active when there is audio to process. So it kicks in a few ms prior to a Region and cuts out after the sound and any reverb or delay tails have died out. This way you get much more tracks out of the same CPU resources than a system with fixed voice assignments like Protools. This is fine in and of itself, but when you stop playback while there is sound active, this sound somehow has to be flushed from the buffers prior to a new Play command. This is where Logic fails. Thus, this stuck sound comes out when the audio engine activates the next time, which is prior to your Region, and continue to do so until the buffer is actually empty, which can take a while with long effect tails. To make things worse, this happens separately for every track, so on a Project with 33 tracks and 3rd party plugins (where this problem occurs mostly) activated, you get a separate click whenever the first Region on a track comes up. One way to avoid it is to play an empty range (repeatedly or in Cycle if necessary) prior to doing the last Bounce, but this does not help when the firstRegion on a track is a while into the song. Another way is to do the Bounce immediately after loading the Project, when the buffers are by definition empty. Maybe they fix it sometime. Christian Edited November 22, 2009 by fuzzfilth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holger Lagerfeldt Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 (deleted) all have been answered above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojave Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 That is it exactly. Some times it won't happen, probably because the buffers are empty and after I play into the track, Stop and start over, I get the POP until I start it over and over as I mentioned, it tapers off and goes away. SO your the Man today Christian. Obviously a very high IQ. I CC 'ed a link of this thread to the Apple Logic Support guy who wanted to learn what's up. They created a case ID but what's the use, I see now, your solution is really the only solution. Cycle mode just before its starting to be sure to clear it all out before bouncing. Maybe next year we will get this bug fix and an option to run logic in either 32 or 64 bit mode. I have a 2 quad core computer and only one channel is actually used unless I have a boat load of plug ins running, THEN it distributes them to other CPU channels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojave Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 Received this article from Apple today. They point to it as a plug in issue not obeying the reset command. Christian, Is this the case or has anyone have experience with this on Apple Plugins? I forwarded this article to my friend at Lexicon and asked him to check it out with the software guys. I'm interested if there is an update? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fader8 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 . . . has anyone have experience with this on Apple Plugins? Mojave, We've had some heated discussion about this issue in the past: http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=43306 It can occasionally happen to Logic's plugs, if Logic hiccups. There may be certain circumstances where it happens more. But then it's hard to know in that case if it's the plug-in buffer or . . . It's an exhaustive subject! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) .....Is this the case or has anyone have experience with this on Apple Plugins? I just have to laugh at this one... Basically I use only the reverbs and delays that come with Logic and I deal with this f*****ing problem all the time. So to me, what Apple has to say in that document (from 2008 no less) is total BS. It's the easiest form of bug-fix: blame the other guy! Edited November 24, 2009 by ski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fader8 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I just have to laugh at this one... Oh there ya go, stirring the coals, twisting the knife, throwing salt in the wound, . . . Face it, ski. It ain't gettin fixed. You know that, so denial won't accomplish anything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Oh there ya go, stirring the coals, twisting the knife, throwing salt in the wound, . . . Well, someone has to do it, might as well be me. Or fuzzfilth... Face it, ski. It ain't gettin fixed. You know that, so denial won't accomplish anything! I had a dream the other night that Logic 10 came out. Everyone on the forum was gah-low-ing about it, extolling the virtues of the Logic programmers because they seemed to have fixed every single legacy bug that had previously plagued Logic for the past 10 years. There was even a big fluorescent pink sticker on the front that said "Backed by Apple's $10,000,000 challenge to find even one bug in Logic 10." So me, still being on Logic 8, decided to bite and forked over the usual $199 upgrade price. By the end of the week, my net worth totaled about $300,000,000. And yes, then I woke up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERO Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 So, what is the recommended workaround for this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojave Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 So, what is the recommended workaround for this? At this point, What Christian said above, Set up a Cycle Mode on an empty region and let it empty out the audio buffers before the bounce. My friend at Lexicon is in contact with the software developer who did the Native Verb plug in and they are double checking and going to verify that the plug in does recognize the command and execute as Apple Says is the issue. So we will see if that makes a difference at least with my Native Verb plug in by Lexicon. I have the PCM96 but can't run it until mid Dec since I upgraded to Snow-leopard so it's just the plug in and what I have with Logic. I'm so used to real Tape Echos or hardware echo and verbs that I have a hard time warming up to the Logic Verb and echos. I do like the Lexicon and there are several other companies making really good plug ins but it's a probability they will all have some bug with Logic in some form or another. That is one advantage using the PCM96, It does not really have that kind of issue since it's running independent. I only use it in mix down and not during recording anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbinsEgg Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Mojave, any word back from Lexicon on this? Anybody else hear of any fixes/workarounds? This thing drives me bat s..t crazy, especially when trying to do cut and pasting after stopping playback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYAudioEngineer Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 I'm new to logic coming from pro tools. I want to believe. I've been working in logic for 2 weeks and found more bugs than I ever had with PT. Your posts are very helpful but it's frustrating. I've heard this problem you describe. If I play the mix, I hear it in there sometimes, if I solo the track I hear it on, it goes away until I solo the adjacent track with it, then the pop comes back.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbinsEgg Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 has anyone had a chance to test this on 9.1? 64 or 32 bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliewestropp Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 I'm still getting this in 2020! Logic 10.5.1 - had figured out the workaround, but good to see it's not just me. Amazed it's not been addressed yet! Prob doesn't help that I work on a lot of ambient music with long verb tails - take an age to flush them out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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