How to efficiently print initial volume as automation ??

[gguter]

Hello,

 

I am coming to Logic from both Pro Tools and DP and have a question about setting initial automation (i.e. bar 1).

 

So, I get my overall balance for the tune and I want to go to bar 1 and (a la DP) create a "snapshot" or (a la Pro Tools), simply throw everything into write mode and hit spacebar and have my initial faders written to automation.

 

Problem is, in Logic, "Write" just erases everything. There must be a better way to print volume automation from the beginning than having to group everything, throw into "latch," hit play and then jiggle the faders and stop.

 

Any advice? Using Logic 8 (Logic Studio)

 

Thanks in advance!

Gerhard

[David Nahmani]

In the Toolbar, click the Automation button. Then for each track, click the horizontal black line representing the current position of the level fader. A node will be inserted where you click and the line will turn solid yellow.

 

I know you're going to hate that solution but that's all I can think of right now.

[gguter]

Hello David,

 

Thank you very much for the reply. No, not really the answer I'd hoped for but I feel a HELL of a lot better hearing it from the guru. If this is something they've altered for Logic 9, I might have to jump aboard right now!

 

Also many thanks for a great book. Love the color pictures. Been through it and it's very helpful and clear.

 

Best,

Gerhard

[David Nahmani]

Well thanks for the kind words on my book!

 

[shivermetimbers]

There is a 'sneaky' way to do this providing you don't have any previous automation.

 

Once your faders are set, rewind to the beginning.

 

Select all the tracks you want to automate in the Mixer screen.

 

Group all your tracks and click automation mode in the group section (make sure you have volume clicked - Pan too if you like). Select 'Touch.'

 

You can leave everything highlighted. Set your tempo to 5 bpm.

 

Hit PLAY, click on a fader (click on a Pan pot too if automated), STOP.

 

With everything still highlighted, switch to READ, ungroup everything and un-select all channel strips.

 

Set your tempo back to normal. If all went well, you can totally screw up your settings and they will all magically return when you go back to '0.'

 

 

For added security, Change all track automation to region automation.

[David Nahmani]

There is a 'sneaky' way to do this providing you don't have any previous automation.

 

Very cool sneaky workaround. I wouldn't even bother with the tempo manipulation - unless you absolutely must have that node at the very beginning of each line.

[nosebagger]

A similar method is to:

 

1. In the mixer, select all (CMD-A) and assign all channels to a group with only the parameters that you want to set initial values for activated (e.g. volume and pan). You could have this permanently set up in your template as Group 1 ... hey you could even name it Write or Snapshot

2. Turn on Automation View (A).

3. You will see a greyed out node at bar 1 of each track. Click just to the right of this node (not on the node or the values get messed up) and two automation nodes of the correct initial value will be created on each track. (At this point, if you want only one initial node, just click the second one to delete it)

4. For any other parameters, switch to the correct view in one automation lane and repeat step 3.

5. In the mixer, with all channels still selected, set the channels to No Group.

 

Not as easy as DP or PT, but not horrible ... although I now have a sneaking suspicion that this will only work on Logic 9 ... give it a try and see.

 

Tom

[chrisbrownsound]

I keep returning to this post wondering why you need to achieve this.

It seems unnecessary, as an automation node is automatically written at the beginning of a track when automation is applied further on.

[nosebagger]

Fair question.

 

For me this is useful to avoid inadvertently losing the initial fader settings of a track. For example, if there is no solid node at the beginning of a track and you write an automation pass and then decide to undo it, the fader will remain at the level it was at, at the point where you pressed undo. Unless you are very lucky, this level will be different from the initial fader level.

 

Tom

[ski]

In the process of getting an idea written during moments of inspiration, and working with a wide palette of instruments, I'm often more into fleshing out the rough concept than I am in thinking about the technical aspects. I set my initial levels for each instrument from a CC#7 slider on my controller and start laying down parts. But inevitably I'll mess up the level of a part at some point because I move the slider by accident.

 

Even though I constantly remind myself to get into the habit of clicking a node (anywhere) along the black line to establish that level right after I've put down a part, it's a hard habit to get into.

 

Why is that?

(I'll take your answers off the air LOL!)

 

Kidding aside, while I really dig reading about these kinds of clever ways to do things as you guys have posted, I'm curious to know why you guys don't also just (very simply) click on the black line to establish a static level once you've set it.

[shivermetimbers]

In the process of Blah, Blah, Blah ...

 

Kidding aside, while I really dig reading about these kinds of clever ways to do things as you guys have posted, I'm curious to know why you guys don't also just (very simply) click on the black line to establish a static level once you've set it.

 

I too am confused about this process since I rarely use automation.

 

In context of the process, I suppose it can technically be called automation because of predefined parameters. In essence, the end result should end up as 'Region' automation much like the Midi song files. Everything is set to go in midi format such as volume, pan, instruments, etc.

 

At the end of a 100 track session, I would not want to press each and every black line to store it as automation. It would be so much easier to press a Key Command or two and then select all the parameters I want saved as automation. In other words, a KC to group tracks, place them in 'touch mode' and then click on one fader to record the values of all 100 faders at the same time.

 

So without using any form of automation during the entire process, one could press a button and retain the final settings of the faders and other controls.

 

 

I am jealous that DP can do this and Logic only has a work around.

[ski]

Taking your context, the crux of my question was this: why do you wait until you have 100 tracks to establish your initial level? Why not do it after you've created each track? Is it that you want to retain the flexibility of altering levels as you go along, or some other reason?

[shivermetimbers]

Taking your context, the crux of my question was this: why do you wait until you have 100 tracks to establish your initial level? Why not do it after you've created each track? Is it that you want to retain the flexibility of altering levels as you go along, or some other reason?

 

I don't know, I don't do it this way. I suppose the best comparison would be would be like trying to have a slice of cake before you finished mixing the ingredients and/or baking it to completion.

 

You don't have the final mix to know the exact levels until after the final mix is 'mixed.' You would end up clicking and re-clicking until Logic pops up a window that states:

 

http://www.4tnz.com/files/thumbpirate_0.jpg

 

'will you make up your frikken mind already!!!'

 

 

 

 

 

At that point, you can then have your cake and eat it too.

[ski]

Be honest... is that your finger? Or are you using someone else's finger to make your, er, point....

[shivermetimbers]

Be honest... is that your finger? Or are you using someone else's finger to make your, er, point....

 

It snot mine, I would have used the middle one.

[ski]

I knew you would say that. Am I psychic or are you becoming predictable?

[shivermetimbers]

I knew you would say that. Am I psychic or are you becoming predictable?

 

OMG!!! you're right! I knew you would say that, too.

 

Is it possible that we are both psychotic?

 

http://www.thetrickery.com/ama/med/straitjacket_new1.jpg

 

 

(BTW, those are elbows and NOT breasts protrusions.)

[nosebagger]

I'm curious to know why you guys don't also just (very simply) click on the black line to establish a static level once you've set it.

 

I think the reason is that ... um, at the risk of being branded a plagiarist ... it's a hard habit to get into.

 

The thing about this is, though, that with one solid node at the beginning of the project, you are still able to freely adjust levels - that is, the node always follows the fader level - while also providing protection from accidently messing up your initial level when undoing your first automation pass. This being the case, I don't understand why the initial node isn't always solid by default.

 

I've been finding this way of working particularly useful lately with external MIDI tracks. What I do is set initial expression and MIDI volume levels in track automation with a single solid node, and then write region based MIDI automation with an external controller. As the external controller doesn't move the Track Automation levels, these always remain as freely adjustable default levels. In the case of expression, this is particularly useful, as it allows you to freely write expression as region data, without losing your initial value. It's good for the modwheel too. It also stops you messing up your initial levels by accidentally bumping your controller.

 

This can all be set up ahead of time in your template - and it doesn't take too long if you go into the Automation Arrange Page, insert the appropriate initial values into an empty region, and then copy this master region to the other tracks. (Also, make sure you turn on Read for all tracks after this.)

 

As far as turning the initial nodes solid, after the fact, I think that the quickest way would be, as I posted before, to have a group permanently set up for this purpose. Then it's simply a matter of selecting all (CMD-A) in the mixer, assigning the group, clicking the grey line on one track, click again to delete the second node, and finally ungroup the tracks. It's actually pretty quick.

 

Like I said, I've only been working this way for a little while, but so far, I'm finding it a nice improvement in my workflow.

 

Tom

[gguter]

Thank you all very much for the useful information. I wasn't expecting to get so many great responses.

 

Thanks!

 

Gerhard

[nosebagger]

Gerhard, glad to help!

 

You'll definitely find this to be a great community.

 

Tom

[k. bright]

I think this might be the right thread to ask about this. I posted a thread a few months ago but didn't get any biters.

 

Sometimes I like to jam out synth style on my keyboard. Since my axiom pro automatically assigns all parameters, sometimes i wind up with a lot of altered parameters by the end of it (many of which I didn't necessarily anticipate adjusting). But then, on playback, things sound all goofed up because when I altered, say, osc1 semitones in the es2 and it was the first tweak of that parameter, if it was originally at 0 and I move it up to say, +7, suddenly the track automation records the previous setting as +1 all the way to the beginning of the track and then adjusts normally from there. Of course, on playback, all previous recording sounds like junk with the oscillator off a semitone. It just seems to register the nearest parameter value in the direction I'm altering it as a flat line of (inaccurate) automation to the beginning of the recording, instead of where it actually previously was. Hope that makes sense.

 

Is this just what happens, and I need to go back and fix all of it each time, or am I doing something wrong? Thanks.