Stayboy Stereo Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I'm stuck here. i'm scoring a picture, but can't seem to get the movie burnTC to sync up with Logic's smpte. I've been reading this thread: http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=49126&highlight=sync+picture but i'm still at a loss. the QT movie has an 8 sec leader which reads 01:00:00;00. If i set my movie start at 00:59:00:00, the movie starts at 01:00:15;28, as per ski's instruction. If i set (in the tempo ed) 1 1 1 1 = smpte position 01:00:00.00, Movie Start (in the project settings) at 01:00:00.00 and Sync settings "Bar Position 1 1 1 1 plays as SMPTE 01:00:00.00", the movie (timecode) is running roughly twice as fast as my smpte. the movie is in 29.97 ndrop, and the "detect" box is checked in the tempo ed. Any help would be fantastic. thanks so much. I'll see all you LA people next Tuesday stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 The QT movie has an 8 sec leader which reads 01:00:00;00. To confirm, the timecode in the leader starts at 01:00:00;00? Also, you said that the movie is 29.97 non-drop. The timecode you indicated above, however, is a drop-frame timecode number. The semicolon is an indicator of this. If the work print you're using was properly striped at 29.97 nd and this is the actual frame rate of the movie, there should be no semi-colon. Please confirm a few things... 1) open the movie in QT. Go to the very beginning. Is there a t/c burn? If so, what's the number? 2) Hit CMD-I and look at the specs of the movie. Does it list 29.97 as the frame rate? (note that there is no way for QT to discern the difference between 29.97 nd and 29.97d, but that's OK). 3) What is the timecode of "first picture" (that's the timecode number of the actual beginning of the film, after the leader runs out) 4) What is your frame rate in Logic set to? 5) Start over... • Start a new blank song (from the Explore/Empty Template) • Open the movie • Set the frame rate to what was listed when you hit CMD-I previously • Set the Movie Start time to the number I asked you about in #3 above • Set the SMPTE position of the first tempo event to that same t/c number • At this point, Logic's SMPTE counter and picture should jibe • Fast-forward (or scroll) to the very last frame of the movie. Do Logic's SMPTE counter and the movie's t/c burn match? If not, what's the difference in time? Addendum: "auto-detect frame rate" doesn't really work. Don't need to shut it off, but don't count on it to determine frame rate. Instead, use CMD-I to find the frame rate of the film in QT as described above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stayboy Stereo Posted December 5, 2009 Author Share Posted December 5, 2009 Hey ski - thanks for the reply. i miss-spoke in regards to drop/non-drop the movie's frame rate is 29.97 there is a t/c burn, and it's 01:00:00:00 at the head there's an 8 sec leader first picture (the start of a fade up) is 01:00:20;06 Logic's frame rate is set to 29.97d So, i set the Movie start to 01:00:20;06 the SMPTE event position to the same So, right now, i'm parked at 01:00:20;06, yet logic's smpte is at 01:00:30;09.35 the last frame of the movie is 02:27:21;08 logic is at 01:23:01:06.33 the t/c in the movie burn just seems like it's clicking off really fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 OK. I think I know what's going on, but I need more information. Going by the information you supplied... Please follow this procedure exactly without "improvising" and post back with your results: 1. Open the movie in Quicktime. Do not hit play. Go to the VIEW menu and select "play all frames". The movie is currently parked at the very top of the leader right now and the timecode says 1 hour. Is that correct? 2. Hit the right arrow key just once. What is the timecode? 3. Hit the right arrow key once more. What's the timecode? 4. Scroll the QT player playhead (and also use the left and right arrow keys) window until you arrive exactly at 01:00:59:29. It's important that you land exactly on this frame. Then, hit the right arrow key just once. What's the timecode? 5. Hit the right arrow key once more. What's the timecode? 6. Click and hold on the elapsed time counter in the QT window. Do you get a menu with choices for type of display? If so, what are those choices? 7. Hit CMD-J. Do you see a listing for a timecode track? 8. Does the movie's t/c burn have a semi-colon separating seconds and frames? 9. Does the movie's t/c burn have a prefix like "TCG"? If so, what is that prefix? 10. Where did this movie file originate from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stayboy Stereo Posted December 7, 2009 Author Share Posted December 7, 2009 OK. I think I know what's going on, but I need more information. Going by the information you supplied... Please follow this procedure exactly without "improvising" and post back with your results: 1. Open the movie in Quicktime. Do not hit play. Go to the VIEW menu and select "play all frames". The movie is currently parked at the very top of the leader right now and the timecode says 1 hour. Is that correct? Yes, that's correct 2. Hit the right arrow key just once. What is the timecode? 01:00:00;02 3. Hit the right arrow key once more. What's the timecode? 01:00:00;04 4. Scroll the QT player playhead (and also use the left and right arrow keys) window until you arrive exactly at 01:00:59:29. It's important that you land exactly on this frame. Then, hit the right arrow key just once. What's the timecode? I actually can't get to that frame. I can only get to 01:00:59;28 5. Hit the right arrow key once more. What's the timecode? 01:01:00;02 6. Click and hold on the elapsed time counter in the QT window. Do you get a menu with choices for type of display? If so, what are those choices? no, i don't get a window or a choice 7. Hit CMD-J. Do you see a listing for a timecode track? not sure. Under properties, there is a "Sound Track" which is checked and there is a "Video Track" which is checked. both have the start time @ 0.00.00 8. Does the movie's t/c burn have a semi-colon separating seconds and frames? yes 9. Does the movie's t/c burn have a prefix like "TCG"? If so, what is that prefix? yes TCG 10. Where did this movie file originate from? from the director. either that or the editor. is there a possibility that there isn't actual t/c embedded in the file? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Thanks for providing all that info. You said the timecode seemed as though it was ticking off fast. Based on the info you provided I can understand why. But I should have asked you -- does the action seem like it's in time or it is twice as fast too? My feeling, without seeing the picture, is that the action appears normal. Can you confirm? On timecode... there's never any timecode embedded in a QT file. When you have a movie open in Logic and you hit play, the QT movie is given a location to play from and then, to the best of my understanding, freewheels. Based on the information your provided, I think the editor/director has rendered the movie incorrectly, viz: Definitely, your version of the QT movie's frame rate is indeed 29.97 and the timecode is striped with drop frame. But maybe (?) it was shot in HD and the render for your work print was at 29.97, and in rendering it, every other frame was skipped. However, the timecode is prefixed with TGC which leads me to think that the film was striped with code and afterwards a 29.97 copy was derived from it. That seems a little strange, tho... Your inability to fast forward frame-by-frame in QuickTime is a key indicator that this is not a Logic problem but a rendering problem. So here's what I would do... Call the director/editor and ask them what the frame rate of the movie is supposed to be. As them if it was shot in HD. If it was, and the actual frame rate is 59.98, then they will have to make you a 29.97 render with proper timecode. If it wasn't shot in HD (59.98) then tell them that you can't sync to the QT movie they provided you because the timecode was rendered incorrectly -- it's running at twice the normal speed, as though every other t/c number is being skipped. Ask them to re-render the film for you. If for some reason that's not an option, you can still score the film, but communicating sync with your editor (i.e., "Cue 2m3 starts at xx:xx:xx:xx timecode) will be impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stayboy Stereo Posted December 7, 2009 Author Share Posted December 7, 2009 Thanks for providing all that info. You said the timecode seemed as though it was ticking off fast. Based on the info you provided I can understand why. But I should have asked you -- does the action seem like it's in time or it is twice as fast too? My feeling, without seeing the picture, is that the action appears normal. Can you confirm? yes, the action is normal On timecode... there's never any timecode embedded in a QT file. When you have a movie open in Logic and you hit play, the QT movie is given a location to play from and then, to the best of my understanding, freewheels. lovely... Based on the information your provided, I think the editor/director has rendered the movie incorrectly, viz: Definitely, your version of the QT movie's frame rate is indeed 29.97 and the timecode is striped with drop frame. But maybe (?) it was shot in HD and the render for your work print was at 29.97, and in rendering it, every other frame was skipped. most likely Call the director/editor and ask them what the frame rate of the movie is supposed to be. As them if it was shot in HD. If it was, and the actual frame rate is 59.98, then they will have to make you a 29.97 render with proper timecode. I'll ask If it wasn't shot in HD (59.98) then tell them that you can't sync to the QT movie they provided you because the timecode was rendered incorrectly -- it's running at twice the normal speed, as though every other t/c number is being skipped. Ask them to re-render the film for you. i'll see about that too If for some reason that's not an option, you can still score the film, but communicating sync with your editor (i.e., "Cue 2m3 starts at xx:xx:xx:xx timecode) will be impossible. i understand. it is a workaround i'll most likely use Thanks so much for the time that you've put into this. I really appreciate it & now that i know, i'll be better informed on the next project cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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