(Automation Question) Hope I'm wrong in this one!

[riggidy]

I found that the the only way to change volumes of audio regions in Logic is by automation, that's pretty stupid but I can live with that.

BUT that same automation is assigned to the channel's fader!! WHAT?! and after you apply the automation, the fader becomes literally untouchable!! You cannot control the overall fader of the channel.

That means that if you edit volumes in some regions in the channel and after that you want to go on with your mix and decide at some point the to change the level of the channel, you cannot push the fader! You can try, but it's not possible, the automation controls the output of the channel. The only way to do it is to put a gain plugin on the inserts or to send the channel's output to another aux.

 

This is the most stupid thing I've ever seen in any DAW.

Hello, it's Logic, it's built to mix! (and to produce and to record and etc).

This is a serious handicap! It's like building a mall without stores! Building a car without a steering wheel. I can't give enough analogies to explain the way I felt when I found out about it.

I wanna be able to push the goddamn faders when I mix! not to open a stupid gain plug for it!

 

Please tell me I'm wrong and I missed something! ~/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components/

Edited May 25, 2010 by riggidy

[chellstrom]

Put the automation in Touch mode when you want to make adjustments. Now everytime you touch the fader new automation is written.

[riggidy]

Put the automation in Touch mode when you want to make adjustments. Now everytime you touch the fader new automation is written.

 

Tried it, it's not was I was looking for but thanks.

Edited May 25, 2010 by riggidy

[tovinho]

Sure you missed a lot of things. If you want to change a waveform volume you can simply click it and change its gain in the inspector's gain. so if you're mixing something like a radio spot with a lot of different voices, you can adjust their volume this way.

If you used automation and want to change the the overall track volume, open its automation (control+a), and pressing command change the yellow bar at the right corner. this way you're changing the overall volume (with all the relatives automations you did on this track).

 

Try to read the manual, use the search engine in this forum. both are very helpful.

 

Hope it helps you

[riggidy]

If you used automation and want to change the the overall track volume, open its automation (control+a), and pressing command change the yellow bar at the right corner. this way you're changing the overall volume (with all the relatives automations you did on this track).

 

The action you described here is the exact action I want to be able to do BUT with using the mixer only. Instead of going to the channel's automation again, I want to be able to just push the fader in the mixers so that the whole automation in the track would move with the movement of the fader.

[tovinho]

you don't have to use automation again. all you have to do is change the overall track volume in the yellow bar (this bar appears when you enable the track automation view using control + a). that's all you've got do to.

[riggidy]

you don't have to use automation again. all you have to do is change the overall track volume in the yellow bar (this bar appears when you enable the track automation view using control + a). that's all you've got do to.

 

Thanks. I got you, but it is using automation again. you actually have to deal with the arrange section again and go to the channel's automation, how is that not automation?

I want to mix, push faders, deal with effects and dynamics, not to go back and deal with the arrange section as if I was editing the track again.

It's a matter of workflow.

[tovinho]

As I'm a long time logic user, I don't know if there's a DAW or console doing this. if you don't want to go back to the arrange page, insert a gain plug in on the track you want to change the volume, use it as you want, and it's done. This way you can change the overall track level and let your automation untouched.

[riggidy]

As I'm a long time logic user, I don't know if there's a DAW or console doing this. if you don't want to go back to the arrange page, insert a gain plug in on the track you want to change the volume, use it as you want, and it's done. This way you can change the overall track level and let your automation untouched.

 

1st of all, Cubase lets you edit the volumes of your audio regions without affecting the channels output fader, there are handles on the top of a region that lets you push the volume up and down as you wish. it doesn't affect the fader at all, which is logical, Logic falls in this department without a doubt. Why should minor level changes of a tiny regions move the fader of the whole track? it's stupid. and no, I don't want to deal with destructive audio editing.

 

Other than that I love Logic.

[ski]

Not sure what the problem is...

 

1) there's the gain parameter available for each individual region. No handles, just a parameter. But, if you want "handles" of a sort, use the "draw 4 nodes at region boundaries" (or similarly-named) function. Now you can drag the automation level up or down to raise/lower a particular region. Yes, that does affect the fader. Curious to know why that would be such a bad thing to have occur.

 

And there are all kinds of other ways to adjust areas of automation that aren't flat lines, but you can read about those in the manual.

 

2) Yes, automation moves the fader. What would you want to see happen instead? But for me it mimics the behavior of every automated board I've ever worked on so for me it's familiar and expected behavior.

 

3) Let's say you have a fader set at 0dB and that seems like a good place for the track in general. But there's one section where you need to push up, say, a vocal line. Fine. Turn automation on by putting the channel in Touch mode and ride the fader up for that section. When you're done, let go of the fader and bam, the level jumps back down to where it was. However, if you had that channel in Latch mode, the level would remain at the point where you let go of the fader. That's simply the difference between how the two modes operate.

 

HTH

[Eric Cardenas]

Building a car with a steering wheel.

 

???

 

 

Ok.

Select a region. Look in the inspector. There is a parameter called "Gain".

 

If that's not enough try using a gain plug-in for your "region automation" then use the faders as usual.

[fader8]

riggidy,

Reading this thread, I can't figure out if you need a track automation "trim" feature or if you want a region "trim" feature?

 

Both are available, just perhaps not in the way you'd like?

[tovinho]

Riggidy:

 

As I said in my first reply, Logic DOES lets you edit the volume of an audio region without affecting the fader volume. SELECT THE WAVEFORM, AND CHANGE ITS GAIN ON THE INSPECTOR LOCATED AT THE TOP LEFT OF THE ARRANGE WINDOWS. It's not a destructive editing. This works exactly as you described. if you don't need volume curves and so on, it's the easiest way to go,

To destructively change a waveform gain, you have to process it using the gain at the sample editor window.

[riggidy]

Riggidy:

 

As I said in my first reply, Logic DOES lets you edit the volume of an audio region without affecting the fader volume. SELECT THE WAVEFORM, AND CHANGE ITS GAIN ON THE INSPECTOR LOCATED AT THE TOP LEFT OF THE ARRANGE WINDOWS. It's not a destructive editing. This works exactly as you described. if you don't need volume curves and so on, it's the easiest way to go,

To destructively change a waveform gain, you have to process it using the gain at the sample editor window.

 

OK, I got you now, the gain on the inspector is the closest to what I was looking for, still it won't compare to what you can see here at 2:37:

No automation needed, just a simple handle that can change the gain, I hope they will add this kind of option in the next versions.

[fader8]

OK, I got you now, the gain on the inspector is the closest to what I was looking for, still it won't compare to what you can see here at 2:37:

No automation needed, just a simple handle that can change the gain, I hope they will add this kind of option in the next versions.

That's just another form of automation, and exactly what you'd have if you used the "Create Nodes at Region Boundary" command with any gain parameter. This Cubase method isn't always what you want because it forces you to make your region gain adjustment pre-insert. Being able to choose "where" in the gain structure, and the ability to do this with any parameter, not just simple gain, is very powerful.

 

Regardless, neither meets your originally stated need of being able to do this from the mixer pane as opposed to the Arrange.

[riggidy]

OK, I got you now, the gain on the inspector is the closest to what I was looking for, still it won't compare to what you can see here at 2:37:

No automation needed, just a simple handle that can change the gain, I hope they will add this kind of option in the next versions.

That's just another form of automation, and exactly what you'd have if you used the "Create Nodes at Region Boundary" command with any gain parameter. This Cubase method isn't always what you want because it forces you to make your region gain adjustment pre-insert. Being able to choose "where" in the gain structure, and the ability to do this with any parameter, not just simple gain, is very powerful.

 

Regardless, neither meets your originally stated need of being able to do this from the mixer pane as opposed to the Arrange.

 

This post shows that you completely didn't get my point, never mind, it's a workflow thing that only a Cubase user would understand. not being sarcastic at all, it's just a thing that you have to work on Cubase for some time to get the point of it.

And yes, what you can see in the Cubase video is automation! but, this is an automation that happens before it hits the channel strip and that's a huge advantage, but as I said, only a long time cubase user would get what's so good about it.

[shivermetimbers]

OK, I got you now, the gain on the inspector is the closest to what I was looking for, still it won't compare to what you can see here at 2:37:

No automation needed, just a simple handle that can change the gain, I hope they will add this kind of option in the next versions.

That's just another form of automation, and exactly what you'd have if you used the "Create Nodes at Region Boundary" command with any gain parameter. This Cubase method isn't always what you want because it forces you to make your region gain adjustment pre-insert. Being able to choose "where" in the gain structure, and the ability to do this with any parameter, not just simple gain, is very powerful.

 

Regardless, neither meets your originally stated need of being able to do this from the mixer pane as opposed to the Arrange.

 

This post shows that you completely didn't get my point, never mind, it's a workflow thing that only a Cubase user would understand. not being sarcastic at all, it's just a thing that you have to work on Cubase for some time to get the point of it.

And yes, what you can see in the Cubase video is automation! but, this is an automation that happens before it hits the channel strip and that's a huge advantage, but as I said, only a long time cubase user would get what's so good about it.

 

 

What you are wanting is actual sample editing, not automation.

 

I like to chop up a part using strip silence and then open up the sample editor. I can then highlight the region I want to normalize or change the gain on.

 

Just like part 2:37, this is a manual operation with drop down menus. You are changing the shape/size of the waveform itself.

[fader8]

This post shows that you completely didn't get my point, never mind, it's a workflow thing that only a Cubase user would understand. not being sarcastic at all, it's just a thing that you have to work on Cubase for some time to get the point of it.

I do understand. Both Sequoia and Nuendo have this feature and I used to use both quite frequently.

 

And yes, what you can see in the Cubase video is automation! but, this is an automation that happens before it hits the channel strip and that's a huge advantage, but as I said, only a long time cubase user would get what's so good about it.

That's nearly the same thing as saying it's the "first" thing in the channel strip. Unfortunately, it's locked to that position, so you don't get to choose where that gain is applied. You're stuck with it being first. That, and the fact that it can only provide simple gain functions and no other parameter, makes it a very limited feature. Having it relegated to a scrolling field in the Inspector works fine for me as I wouldn't need that pre-insert gain function that much, and it would just clutter the region graphics. But I can understand how changing a workflow habit can be uncomfortable. I've had to do it too many times. We are inevitably encumbered by progress in this line of work!