ProTools refugee seeks sonic asylum

[stainless]

Greetings!

 

I'm about to replace my G5 PPC with a quad core- this will require that I either upgrade to ProTools 9.0 (I've been on ProTools since 2000) or change platforms- and Logic is at the top of my list

 

despite my long familiarity with PT, the long long list of threads over at the DUC from folks having numerous problems with 9.0 is troublesome... and the prospect of spending countless hours getting everything to work with PT 9.0 makes me think now is the perfect time to change (and ProTools has a long history of buggy upgrades)

 

Changing to Logic means a new interface, as I doubt it will work through my 002R (but maybe it will... Reaper does), but the 002R, like the PPC is no longer supported, so it's about time- so maybe a Motu or maybe a RME. I don't need any built-in pre's .

 

any thoughts between Motu and RME

 

I greatly appreciate anyone who'd be so kind to answer a few of my question.

 

Can I assign multiple outputs to each track( example drums sent to a buss which has output to 1/2 (stereo) and to 3 mono, bass -> 1/2, 4 mono, etc?)- I use a Oz Audio HM-6 to get individual headphone mixes. so i need the individually routed outputs.

 

Latency in general? I typically do not use piles of plug-ins. and many tracks are patched through outboard gear (channel strips, pre->EQ or comp, etc) so aside perhaps from slapping a stereo verb on the master bus- while recording, not a lot of plug-ins

 

however, some overdubbing may happen after mixing has gotten a bit more involved and plug-ins may be used... any latency issues now (with the multi outputs?)

 

I use both tape and digital- will my PPS-2 synch work with Logic so the sessions synch to the tape and both start/stop/rewind... from the tapes transport?

 

Will Logic run VST's- I think most of my plug-ins will move, and there's a few that won't, of which I'll miss a couple...

 

thanks much

[Antiphones]

any thoughts between Motu and RME

Motu works fine I have an 828MKII driver is excellent, very stable and reliable. Also have a TC Electronic Studiokonnkt 48 - I would say the sound quality of this unit is significantly better than the Motu - it clearer, cleaner, bigger sounding. But... and its a big but... the driver is diabolical. I've got it working now but next time I do even a minimal system update or Logic fix update... I expect the driver to stop working.

 

Can I assign multiple outputs to each track( example drums sent to a buss which has output to 1/2 (stereo) and to 3 mono, bass -> 1/2, 4 mono, etc?)- I use a Oz Audio HM-6 to get individual headphone mixes. so i need the individually routed outputs.

 

You can send any channel to as many busses as you like via the sends and busses, via auxes can to to any output your hardware has. So yes you could send the bass to 12 different outs if you wanted.

 

Or you can just select any stereo or mono out for any channel without using busses.

 

Latency in general?

 

The latency stacks up as you use more plugins. Not a problem for mixing as all latency is compensated in Logic. But is a problem for tracking if you monitor through Logic. So you have two choices when recording - don't monitor through Logic but monitor through your desk instead (that what I do) - you'll get zero latency that way, but you won't be able to use software effects for monitoring on the instrument you are recording - that doesn't bother me, I use external hardware reverbs for monitoring when recording. Or you can turn off all your effects when recording. Fine if you are tracking on a fresh song with no plugin loaded, not so good if you are doing overdubs later after you've added lots of plugins.

 

Hope that helps.

[stainless]

thanks for the reply-

 

as I have a Euphonix control surfaces I think I'm somewhat stuck monitoring through the DAW- unless I get another analog mixer... but where to fit it in?

 

Isn't there a low latemcy mode in Logic? (thought i read something somewhere). if so, does it kill the other outputs (like ProTools does)?

 

Though I've pondered getting rid of the Euphonix as the new Mackie mixers look very attractive (I don't have room for both..., although I suppose i could use both if I could fit them in)

 

no, no (snaps out of a fantasy daydream).. remodeling isn't a good idea

[Antiphones]

I don't actually use a mixer anymore for laying single tracks, I go straight into the TC or Motu. Either one of these has outputs to my monitors and both have software mixers with zero latency monitoring - which mix the inputs to the monitors. Its like a mixer without a mixer, you can even have sends to outboard gear for monitoring. The TC also has hardware reverb for monitoring. So its a zero latency monitoring solution for me with either the Motu or TC.

 

I'm no expert on protools but it seems to me that one of the advantages of all the expensive hardware is that the plugin processing is taken care off outside of the DAW so latency if very low. Obviously this doesn't really work with the cheaper home studio versions of the hardware. There's bound to be some latency stack up as you add more plugins even in protools, but its seems a lot less than any other system - but it does require their very expensive hardware. I'm not convinced the sound quality is any better than other good A/D boxes either - but the latency is better for tracking.

[stainless]

my reason for moving away from an analog mixer is/was there seems no way to completely bypass the internal pres- while line in theoretically eliminates this, there's still the gain control circuit.... this is not to say that there aren't any mixers with decent pre-amps, but it would be ever so nice to have it be my choice as to which pre's I use

 

I have acquired some better to great pieces of outboard gear over the past years and I'd prefer to use them as 'virgin' as possible

 

I'm aware of the monitor outs on the Motu, but for the headphone matrix/mixer to work i need additional individual outs (without latency) ..... and I'm not sure it will do that

 

ProTools 9.0 no longer requires the digi hardware ....although a lot of folks seem to be having problems getting others hardware to work...

 

I suppose a work around would be to render those tracks having plug-ins... not a real efficient use of time :

[Antiphones]

ProTools 9.0 no longer requires the digi hardware ....although a lot of folks seem to be having problems getting others hardware to work...

 

Yes I have the dongle version of protools myself which I use on occasion. But Logic has more of what I need. Its the proprietary hardware that lowers the latency of plugins of course.

 

I'm aware of the monitor outs on the Motu, but for the headphone matrix/mixer to work i need additional individual outs (without latency) ..... and I'm not sure it will do that

 

You should be able to do that, I can't see any reason why not. What comes out of Logic into the motu will not have latency (because its compensated for when you record) so you should be able to rout that to as many outs on the motu as you like and then to headphone amps, using the motu software mixer for send levels etc...

 

As for your preamps... surely they have to go into the motu (or whatever your A/D box is) to get into protools or Logic... so why not monitor via the motu. So then you don't need a mixer... you have a totally minimal signal path but you still use your favourite preamp and you can still monitor as many headphone sends as you like. That's what I do... I'm after a minimal signal path as well, its the main reason I don't use a mixer for tracking single instruments.

 

Check what the new motu sofware mixers can do - they control the hardware in the motu. If it doesn't have enough flexibility for your needs I'm sure there are others out there. The TC has an excellent software mixer but I can't really recommend it because the driver is unreliable on a lot of computers.

[stainless]

that's encouraging- I'll look more into the Motu- I don't think the RME offers that (despite being more expensive)

 

Do you use the Motu as you're clock?

 

I also have a Presonus D-8 (optical/ADAT) which at the moment with ProTools, I'm clocking to it as it's a better clock than the Digi 002R

[Antiphones]

Do you use the Motu as you're clock?

Yes and its always been trouble free. Good solid sound from the MKII as well. Though perhaps not quite as much details as I get from the TC despite its driver problems.

[redlogic]

I don't think the RME offers that (despite being more expensive)

Just wanted to chime in and say that the RME Total Mix routing software offers extensive routing possibilities and rock solid drivers.

[stainless]

the RME Fireface 800 includes the total Mix- and it looks like a very nice unit, but, while I might use the internal pre-amps (4) I don't have a need for more pre-amps- and it looks like i 'd need an additional card to synch up with time code ( I mix analog and digital together, using tape for vocals and acoustic instruments)

 

The Motu 828 mk3 only has 2 internal pre's, does appear to have SMPTE synch capabilities... (not sure if it can generate code to stripe a tape... I've sent them a question) and it's only a single unit, which leaves room for something else!

 

at about $1000 less I'm sure we're not talking apples to apples, but I unfortunately don't have an unlimited budget- (no pun intended)