Music Theory

[Nublu]

How does someone learn how to write a good song?

 

Sketch, sketch some more

Write, write some more,

Feedback,

Knowledgeable guidance and Input

Study,

Listen appreciatively to the music of others.

Keep and enjoy the company of those who love music..

 

All the above is good stuff. But why do we say Play Music?

I believe the key lies in that word.

[aleos]

.

Old Pappa Bach had some theory, but if you've ever taken a crack at analyzing any of his Harmonized Chorales in that Riemenschneider book, you've probably had the same jaw dropping experience I've had. The theory's great, but the imagination is...well....What can you say?

 

old pa Bach had genius, imagination, divine inspiration and all that. Unreal amounts. But he also had heavy theory. Heavy heavy. His violin partitas have two lines going at once, outlining sophisticated harmony for the day.

Inspiration can takes you to the most beautiful places in the musical universe, but a little bit of theory let's you build a house there and become a permanent resident.

 

I think an interesting question to ask is; does the music I want to make require theory?

Do you want to write classic beautiful folk songs, then maybe you don't need so much theory. A block buster movie score? Definitely need some theory.

Even if you just want to rock though, I think theory can be fun.

One of the things for me that sets radiohead's music apart from the bunch is their (mostly Jonny greenwood's) use of sophisticated composition techniques. I think these techniques come from listening to more "theoretical-steeped" music and then figuring out what makes that cool sound. ie theory. Why does the shift to minor in ravel's bolero sound so badass? You don't get the same effect when you go from c major to aminor.

what happens if you have a three chord song, with a chord-tone based based melody. The chords are A D and E. You like the harmonic movement, but the actual bare bon chords sound corny.

 

Anyways, sorry for rambling. I just love theory, but not in the dirty-word pretentious way. but in the sense and love of exploration.

[Orsanct]

I find that music theory debates often (silently) revolve around negative personal experiences. IMO, theory is simply a way to encapsulate a musical practice into a digestible format that can be then shared with others. The fact that there are stodgy theory teachers who torment generations of students isn't really the point. If you find it useful - use it. If you don't - don't bother.

 

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

...IMO, theory is simply a way to encapsulate a musical practice into a digestible format that can be then shared with others.

 

Exactly, notation is a language.

 

People get "rules" and "laws" mixed up. Language has rules, but it is not science, it is cultural and it changes over time.

 

Harmony is cultural, it is about what people expect to hear, according to the music they have been exposed to in their lifetime. Sometimes it is about breaking those expectations.

 

I remember my mum telling me that she once lived with a Chinese woman who liked listening to records of Chinese folk singing, for the first few months it tortured her ears, but by the end of the year it sounded beautiful to her.

 

 

If you find it useful - use it. If you don't - don't bother.

 

Everyone who makes music is using it, they just don't know how to express what they're doing if they don't know the "language".

 

I started out self-taught, and used a bunch of odd scales and intervals. Which was fine, but now I have both names for what I did, and an awareness of the contexts in which they fit into the bigger harmonic picture.

 

The problem comes when you start thinking of the rules as laws; "you can't play that note, it isn't in F# dorian..."

[PKGuy323]

If you want to write hit songs that people will feel familiar with, then use the 1-4-5-1 chord progression.

[mikiber2]

Harmony in its Systemic and its Phenomenological Aspects (1980, Yanetz)

[miniklop]

Harmony in its Systemic and its Phenomenological Aspects (1980, Yanetz)

wow thats cool)!

[JetLab]

I'm just looking to obtain the knowledge and skills needed to create but don't know where to start.

 

 

Hey Hover,

I can totally relate to where you are coming from. Music can be a frustrating endeavor when we have things in our head and want to create but sometimes don't know where to start. Let me give you a few tips that may get you rolling in the right direction.

 

keep in mind music theory is a wonderful tool as part of the creative process but it's not the end all nor will it necessarily make you a better song writer or more skilled arranger. Additionally, music is a language and takes quite some time to incorporate all the rules and nuances into fluency. Once fluent there are still many other aspect to writing that can't be covered strictly through knowledge of music theory.

 

Please don't let this discourage you as I'm going somewhere with this that may help you.

 

To be a good song writer and arranger I think the person has to first define the direction they are looking to go. Be it in a particular song or throughout a collection of work. Once aware of this direction it now becomes important to really get into other artist that share a similar path. If I'm lacking music theory (still learning here) I can learn a lot by listening to these other artist and breaking down their songs, if not the theoretical part, I can surely break down the structure of the song which I can then plug into my own ideas to begin writing my own music. David gave me an excellent idea of using markers in a song I export (drag and drop) from iTunes (or wherever) and making notes. For instance marking the first 4 bars and making a note as "Intro" then "verse" then "pre chorus" etc. The beauty here is you don't have to use conventional naming just use whatever helps you to dissect a song that interests you. After doing this you should have a pretty good template for structure at least to guide your own ideas.

 

Keep in mind that, IMHO, there really isn't anything that can be done in todays modern music that hasn't already been done. In reality we are all just copy cats. What makes our music individual is the nuances we add. You know, the sounds and arranging styles that are interesting to us. Of course there are some rules that you'll want to follow that will keep you out of traps, but all in all if you follow a structure you'll have a good head start while you continue to study music theory.

 

To be good at this you have to become a slave to repetition. All the great songwriters understand this. Trial and error, listening to criticism and perseverance will take you a lot further than any theory book can ever do. Keep pounding away at it and you will continue to grow as a musician and learn and learn and learn. To me that is one of the greatest joys I get from music. There is so much to learn that I will continue to learn until the day I die.

 

As a final thought it may help you to understand that very few, if any, people are born with "it". Most every musician who has any talent has worked extremely hard to reach the 10,000 hour rule.

 

I hope this helps, perhaps I'm just blabbing for my own benefit

 

Above all have fun and if you find yourself getting frustrated put it down for a few and come back after trying something different.

 

If you ever have any questions or need some help feel free to PM me.

 

Cheers,

 

Ken

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

keep in mind music theory is a wonderful tool as part of the creative process but it's not the end all nor will it necessarily make you a better song writer or more skilled arranger. Additionally, music is a language and takes quite some time to incorporate all the rules and nuances into fluency. Once fluent there are still many other aspect to writing that can't be covered strictly through knowledge of music theory.

 

Be very wary of the diference between music convention and music theory, they are very different things.

 

To be a good song writer and arranger I think the person has to first define the direction they are looking to go. Be it in a particular song or throughout a collection of work.

 

And be aware that, as in any endeavour, your "voice" may be decades in the making.

 

Once aware of this direction it now becomes important to really get into other artist that share a similar path.

 

Whilst knowledge of what artists you admire were doing at any particular time is great and informative, do not end up aping them, because you will have lost your unique voice.

 

...Hic!

Edited December 19, 2011 by Rev. Juda$ Sleaze

[Beer Moth]

Mmmm...more royalties.

 

 

 

Hic within the hour.

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

Mmmm...more royalties.

 

 

 

Hic within the hour.

 

Ha! You didn't see what I had to remove with my "hic!"

 

Has been a night of the finest-kept real ales and Welsh whiskey...

[rhys]

My definition of a good song is something that makes me feel something, If my own music doesn't make me feel something then I do not keep it, if in doubt throw it out. That being said that still doesn't necessarily make it a "good song". Mr Oizo Flat Beat comes to mind, I personally thought that song/track was rubbish but I now some people would flame me for saying that its not good.

 

I understand why hoverX wants to learn music theory to get a "good song" tho, its the same reason I'm trying to learn. It is so I can get the ideas out of my head more efficiently, I have spent years learning the guitar and bass etc but all through tab...now all that experience is no good to me really apart from if I want a funky guitar riff I can just make one.

 

I have read a thread on here about intermodal exchange. I can recognise it when I hear it but if I wanted to do this myself I would not know where to "borrow" the chord from!!! lol I have noticed this technique used a lot in complextro tracks where there will be a harmonious melody and at say the 16th bar there will be a small sort of mini riff or chord that sounds slightly disjointed from the rest of the track creating a real funky and unexpected feel when the melody returns to normal.

 

I am going to check out Music Theory for dummies cheers but can anyone recommend any sites or youtube videos that explain the very basics but not too basic like how to read a stave etc

 

As for four and three chord wonders Nirvana maybe Niel Young, I hope this four chord business doesn't lead to drug addiction, I will just stick to minimal house music and use just one chord

[lookatthisguy]

Pretty sure I've mentioned this in a previous thread or two about theory, but musictheory.net is handy for the gist of what you'd learn in, say, an average Theory I course.