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Project Start is at minus 8 bars and won't move back?


BennnyTheBall

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I have moved the Project Start pack to minus 8 bars, and it is stuck there. To clarify, I am referring to the project start handle in the timeline of the arrange window that looks like this ] (only fatter) The handle in the timeline will not let me drag it forward. Is there somewhere else I can adjust the project start location?
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The likely culprit is that you have automation written in at least one track. IF that's the case there's no way you'll be able to move that Song Start maker unless you take a few preparatory steps. But before I post what those are, please answer these questions:

 

• you have any automation in your song?

 

• do any of the regions start before bar 1 1 1 1?

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Yeah, I understand, do what the boss says. But in this case he's using a feature of Logic that is inherently bug-ridden. Trust me on this. And inform your boss that it's one of those situations where just because Logic lets you do something doesn't mean it's a good idea.

 

So here's what you do to fix it:

 

EASY FIX: if you don't have any meaningful automation written in just yet, use the function to delete all automation of all tracks. Once this is done, move the song start marker to 1 1 1 1 and never touch it again.

 

IF the above is not the case, then things get more complicated...

 

THE LONG FIX

1) for EACH track that has automation, use the "new track with same channel strip/instrument" function and create a duplicate track.

 

2) on each track, pencil in a region at the very start of the project (I guess this is bar -8 or whatever).

 

3) stretch each track to be the length of the project, and then select them all. Open the color palette and make them all a color that doesn't belong to any other region. This makes it easy to select them all using the "select regions by color" function if necessary. Read on...

 

4) with all of those blank regions selected, use the function to move all track-based automation to regions

 

5) now you have to double-check that this worked: select any track that had automation on it, open the automation event list, and then hit CMD-1. This will show you the normally hidden automation arrange page. If it's empty (and it should be), close it and the auto. event list.

 

6) now set your playhead to 1 1 1 1, select all of those regions you made (here, using the 'select by color' function makes quick work of this) and split at playhead. Delete the regions before bar 1.

 

7) move the song start marker to 1 1 1 1 and never touch it again.

 

FINAL STEPS:

 

8a) select all of those regions you made and use the function to move all region automation to track automation

 

8b) use the function "select empty regions" and make sure that all of those regions are actually empty now (they should be). If so, delete those regions.

 

8c) go into each track's automation and add at least one node somewhere in the beginning to re-establish nodes starting from bar 1 1 1 1 (you'll see what I mean when you try it)

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  • 7 months later...

i just opened a session and Although all tracks are Protected the Start time of the session is now Bar -2 i did not touch this and have read this post before and have heeded the warning. Logic has been a little bitch while trying to mix the CD I am working on. i will post specifically about the Protect issues. but to stay on track I am so frustrated by Logic this week I am tempted to mix in PT.

 

your suggestion to delete Automation may be the only way out of this. and Start this mix all over again. days of work will be lost. real drag.

 

I see also if you move that Start position any further to the left it just sticks there. no going back - real bad feature.

 

cheers

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There's another way you can attempt to fix this, something which David brought to my attention. If I remember correctly, here's what you should try:

 

Use the Insert function to insert two measures between -2 and 1 1 1 1. Then move the start marker back to 1 1 1 1. See if that works.

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sounds like Fun lol

 

i went back to an earlier session. if i get some time later i will try that out ..

 

insert 2 bars between -2 and 1111 the only insert i see is in the Arrange / Edit menu - Cut/ Insert Time is this what you speak of ?

 

thank you

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sounds like Fun lol

 

i went back to an earlier session. if i get some time later i will try that out ..

 

insert 2 bars between -2 and 1111 the only insert i see is in the Arrange / Edit menu - Cut/ Insert Time is this what you speak of ?

 

thank you

 

Yes.

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Set your left locator to (whatever) and the right locator to bar 1 1 1 1. Insert time, etc. per the above. Just try it out. Worst that can happen is things don't work out quite as expected, in which case hit undo or re-load the original version of the song. Oh yes, and then post back here and say, "it didn't work, what did I do wrong?" :lol:
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none of the options snip / insert silence work / i tired move . don't move

 

this is just a bad thing all around. thanks for trying

 

MacRumors about Logic Pro X i never did the FCP X update. could this be the end of the line ?

 

i can get it back to -1 but that is as far as it will go / also the locators still say they will go back to -9 it moved another bar LOL

 

cheers

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OK, well, you might need a more intensive walk-through on this.

 

FWIW, I recently spend 2.5 hours on the phone with a client sorting out the damage done by having the start point set in the "negative bar area" as we call it. Problem solved, but yeah, it took a while. So sometimes the cure is easy, sometimes it's not.

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i say screw al this BS i need to get back to work since i went back to an older version I am fine. I would really like to know how this crap happens. very frustrating. this is added to a long list of frustrating things about logic.

 

oh well is right thank you again for wasting your time too !!! :)

 

cheers and stay cool if you are i the valley it is hot down by the beach as well

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none of the options snip / insert silence work / i tired move . don't move

 

Sorry to hear you can't make it work. Let's focus on the only option that works: to insert silence. Personally, I have never been in a situation where that solution does not work.

 

1) Did you click-hold your start marker to check the exact position? What is that position?

 

2) When you insert silence, can you describe as accurately as possible what happens to your regions? To your automation?

 

3) After inserting silence, do you still see any automation at all before 1 1 1 1?

 

Before and after screenshots would help a lot.

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i say screw al this BS i need to get back to work since i went back to an older version I am fine. I would really like to know how this crap happens. very frustrating. this is added to a long list of frustrating things about logic.

 

oh well is right thank you again for wasting your time too !!! :)

 

Never a waste of time. Thank you for acknowledging the effort tho, as many people don't even bother to do that.

 

cheers and stay cool if you are i the valley it is hot down by the beach as well

 

Thanks! Ah, you're in Cali Venice, not the one in the boot-shaped country? Indeed, it's a scorcher. I was outside for hours yesterday in 106º weather fixing my fence. Thank gawd for the pool!!

 

Cheers,

 

Ski of the Valley (wipes forehead, sips on a cold beer)

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just for kicks i opened a blank session / created a midi track / made some beautiful noises / then Wrote some manual automation / dragged the Start thing back as far as i could / then dragged it right back to bar 1 / over and over / it works fine / back in the nasty session it is not working

 

i also tried to make it happen in the bad session and this new blank sucker / even though you can drag the cycle left locator farther to the left than bar 1 it does not affect the start of the session .

 

hey david, thank you for chiming in that session is behind me now. Really just do not want this to happen again. so I am just trying to understand How it could happen. you have to try and do this, it is not a thing that the Cycle / Loop seems to be able to do

 

cheers and yes, not the Boot / more like the Hood than the Boot LOL

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I am just trying to understand How it could happen.

 

There are several ways this could happen. One of them is when recording MIDI, if some of the MIDI events sent to Logic occur just before 1 1 1 1, in some cases Logic moves the start marker.

 

it is not a thing that the Cycle / Loop seems to be able to do

I believe chances are high it would, and I am ready to help you if you want, but if you'd rather give up I understand. Worse case scenario, if your project file is corrupted, you can rebuild it and then try again.

 

Again, I've used that technique quite a bit, for myself, and for our clients, and I have yet to see it fail.

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thank you so mcuh for the offer to continue this. really I need to get back to work and I do have the workaround for now (older version of session). I will now be even more careful - i will be moving so slow it will look like I am standing still. i will come back to this issue when finished / hopefully not before :)
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i even went so far today to see if i could transfer all my Logic plugin settings into pro tools format. i know, i know, i am truly sorry for even bringing that up. i had a moment of weakness today

 

that astronaut he played died from a heart attack from all the Space stress / there was a very early version of Logic loaded on the Apollo 13 Nav computer so they could write some spacey music out there (where do you think MoonGlow and MoonDance came from) LOL

 

ok, i will not jump from the pier, i will just wade in over my head

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  • 9 months later...

Hi guys,

 

This just happened to me - I found the "song start" marker was about 5 bars back and wouldn't move. The "Insert silence" solution worked for me and the handle got back to zero after multiple tries at this (thanks).

 

I wanted to check: Does anybody know what the point of the "song start" marker is, if it shouldn't be moved from 1111? Perhaps it is there just to handle these negative midi instructions which wrongly occur before song start? The "song end" handle just seems to determine how long your grid is going to be, and you don't need it to be 2000 bars long if you're only going to use 150 bars - it just makes the scrollbars tiny.

 

Do these handles server any other purpose? I believe you use the cycle region for bouncing? If so then maybe they could in theory be got rid of. The song starts at 1111 all the time, no negative midi signals accepted and the grid space expands and contracts automatically according to content, with a couple of spare bars at the end for aesthetics?

 

Finally, once you have your start back to 1111, is it generally good policy to start your regions on this mark, or a bar later?

 

Many thanks for any replies.

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