Spanley Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 I'm running a guitar synth (GR-33) which assigns a different MIDI channel to each string to get full functionality. If the sequencer (Logic) doesn't track these channels separately, from what I understand, the MIDI data gets condensed, all 6 strings onto a single midi channel, in which case you lose the pitch bend info for each string - slides, bends, etc. - and wind up with purely chromatic and very crappy sounding transitions between notes. The chromatic function on the GR-33 is switched off. I've tried recording on a single track, with Midi set to one, or all; I've tried recording multi-timbrally, with each of the six tracks assigned either to MIDI all, or MIDI one, or MIDI 1-6 sequentially. I'm out of ideas. Either LOGIC is still condensing the 6 channels into one (I think this is it), or it's not acknowledging or reading the pitch bend info from the guitar synth properly, i.e., it's automatically setting it to 0. I don't think that's it, since I also get wild pitch bends if I turn up the pitch bend range on the guitar synth. I'm really stuck here. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordi Torres Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 I'm running a guitar synth (GR-33) which assigns a different MIDI channel to each string to get full functionality. If the sequencer (Logic) doesn't track these channels separately, from what I understand, the MIDI data gets condensed, all 6 strings onto a single midi channel, Have you actually verified this is what's happening? Try opening a recorded midi region in the event list and check the channel per note. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCTMusic Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Hi If your GR is transmitting on 6 different MIDI channels (MONO mode), but you are playing via one software instrument track, all the data will be transmitted to that single instrument. This could cause all sorts of chaos with conflicting pitchbend info, Setup 6 tracks with the desired Instrument Plugin, each assigned to a a different MIDI channel (1-6 or whatever the GR is transmitting on) in the Track Parameter box in the Inspector. In Settings:Recording choose 'Auto Demix by Channel if multi-track recording". Then record arm all six tracks (click on the R in the Track Header). If all is correct, you should have six tracks each with 1 string;s data. HTH CCT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 You'll find a quick guide for this set up on the following link: Control Multiple Instruments on Different MIDI Channels ... and as CCT suggested, consider each string as an individual software instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. V Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Skim through this to see if it addresses your concern: MIDI Guitar and Logic If you're recording to one track, all 6 MIDI channels will be intact on that track. At this point you can demix by channel: Arrange Window>MIDI local menu>Separate MIDI Notes>By Event Channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Z Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 You've got some great advice with the other posts. I think you'll get the best results creating 6 separate instruments, each assigned to its own MIDI channel. Set your guitar controller so each string transmits on its own MIDI channel (obviously matching the SI channels) Lastly, make sure your controller is sending out pitch bend and that each instrument's pitch bend setting is set to +/- 12 - this generally is a good place to start. (Nice tutorials Mr. V and David) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanley Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 This is great. Gonna try it out later tonight, when I have some time. Meanwhile, Doug Z, when you say make sure pitch bend for each instr is +/- 12, where, exactly, is the pitch bend range alterable for each individual Logic patch? There's nothing in the manual on this, unless you're talking about the bend range specifiable in the Logic Synth plug-ins, like Sculpture, etc. Is this what you mean, or something simpler that I'm missing? Or did you mean the bend range on the controller (GR-33)? Thanks again to all - Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Z Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I'm referring to the the plug-in, ie EXS 24. It has a parameter you can adjust - most plug-ins do. You should also see if you can adjust the pitch bend output of the Roland controller - I'm not familiar with it to know where it's located but assume there is some type of control. Lastly careful you don't filter out pitch bend in Logic (it's possible in MIDI settings). You can also kill pitch bend form the Roland as well, I'm sure.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanley Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 So, making the changes you all suggested solved the issue of only being able to play chromatically. Success. But even with the channel demixed, and the pitch bend values matched to controller, I am getting a lot of warble in the pitch, and sometimes blatant misreads, usually by a half step. I suppose this is a separate problem from the one I posted about, but still, if it sparks any thoughts, I'd love to hear them. Much appreciated - Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Z Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Two thoughts: Are the instruments sounds able to handle pitch bend? (Some patches don't, or handle the extreme (+/- 12) poorly.) Try some different patches or synths and see if the results are the same. What is the quality of the Roland converting the guitar pitch to MIDI? Nothing does a perfect job. I'm not familiar with that model, but traditionally Roland units tracked great with their own internal sounds, did a much poorer job converting to MIDI to trigger external sounds. I've been doing MIDI guitar since the late 80's and I've yet to see a perfect system that converts guitar to MIDI without tracking errors. If you find it and it's under five grand, let me know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I've yet to see a perfect system that converts guitar to MIDI without tracking errors. If you find it and it's under five grand, let me know Doug, for $5,000 I'll come to your studio, sit behind your Logic desk, watch your fingers as you're playing guitar and really quickly enter the notes in the piano roll with the pencil tool. Deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanley Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 The patches I had in mind were the ones that would naturally use pitch bend, like synth guitars, for instance. It's bad enough that unless I filter pitch bend out, it's not usable. With pitch bend filtered, or turned to 0 on the controller, then I am in business, but with much less of a natural feel. The GR-33 is the next to latest synth engine from Roland, only just recently updated with the 55. It's supposed to be good, from what I've read, but I don't suppose it measures up to something like the Axon units, which are dedicated solely to the fastest, best possible pitch-midi conversion. I'm not speaking from experience, though. It could be the MIDI conversion in the Roland unit. I'll have to consider that as a possibility. So, thanks for the guidance. I'm just beginning to explore the world of MIDI ... - Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Z Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 @ David - thank you - damn funny! I wish it were that easy. Alas, I'd need you to stick around for about five years, the average life of a controller before I replace them.. While the food's good, the pay aint...... @ Spanley - I currently have an Axon and it's good, but like I said, there is nothing out there that's perfect (Well, if you can get David over, of course...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 @ David - thank you - damn funny! I wish it were that easy. Alas, I'd need you to stick around for about five years, the average life of a controller before I replace them.. While the food's good, the pay aint...... Yeah we may want to renegotiate that salary.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCTMusic Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 So, making the changes you all suggested solved the issue of only being able to play chromatically. Success. But even with the channel demixed, and the pitch bend values matched to controller, I am getting a lot of warble in the pitch, and sometimes blatant misreads, usually by a half step. I suppose this is a separate problem from the one I posted about, but still, if it sparks any thoughts, I'd love to hear them. Much appreciated - Danny Hi I'd try adjusting the Bend Range on the GR down to maybe 3, 4 or 5 semitones, and adjust the Instrument plugs to match. CCT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Z Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Let me get that hit song written and the royalties streaming in and I'll get back to you then.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanley Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 @CCT, et al.: would possibly applying the pitch bend filter to the right paramaters in the Environment be a way of dealing with these weird pitch warbles and misfires between the controller and Logic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCTMusic Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Hi I'd do that at the GR CCT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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