john1192 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 hello, I am about to finish an Album in the next few weeks and am contemplating formats for delivery to mastering. This is me asking before I speak with mastering. Just curious of opinions about what to Mix to. this has been a very fun process done in PTLE, Nuendo, but all Logic on my end. mixdown options: I will use several formats as always, giving the best option for each song to mastering. 1) returning into Logic session Digitally (Bus internally in Logic) - I am running 24/48 2) at 24/48 go out analog through Neve 1073 line input / SSL 502 EQ - possible very light touch of outboard Comp ie: NY2A or Atomic Squeeze Box's - can borrow an SSL G buss hardware comp or No Comp at all 3) upsample to 24/96 and use chain from #2 3) Tascam DSD through the chain in #2&3 or maybe direct out of Logic with no analog chain, Nah, some funk will be nice 4) rent an analog 2-track ( tried this once with a friend, got an ampex 2 track, model escapes me, 440 or whatever. good calibration pushed a bit maybe but not to much). producers choose the return into the program blindly each time. at 24/48 we used 8 channels of SSL X - rack Line inputs and the Hardware G bus Comp lightly 4:1 or a Tad more 5) something new and fresh ???? or my portable Dat machine, yes I still have one with the external digital box with SPDif coax and optical - lol works on batteries only now .. Haha thank you for your opinions - cheers john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1192 Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 anyone ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Adding good hardware compression is always a good call. Don't you want mastering to do the compression? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 am contemplating formats for delivery to mastering. John, except for option #1, which is the equivalent of simply bouncing your project, all other options are mastering processes. The mix is still done on Logic's audio engine's summing bus, same as when bouncing in Logic. You just apply processes to your entire mix - which is mastering. If you are going to hire someone else to do the job, why start doing half the job yourself? Just bounce your project from Logic and send it to your mastering engineer. If you have an idea of how you would like your masters to sound, then go ahead and do all your processing on the bounced mix, and send that along with the original (dry) mix to your mastering engineer as a reference of what you'd like the master to sound like - but let them do their job on your dry mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1192 Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 hi guys, david, yes this project is going to Mastering. i am not doing any of his work. he will be doing whatever needed Eq / Compression / sample rate conversion to 44.1k and dithering to 16bit / maybe fades as well I would like to try some Analog outboard for flavor - the best sound to my ears will be used in the end. i will also be doing bounces internally and re-recording using internal bussing as well to see what sounds I like best. so out Analog into some flavor boxes - ie: SSl EQ's I love the sound of the circuitry - neve 1073 line inputs - maybe touch it slightly with 2 atomic Squeeze Boxes or NY2A or not. lots of options. the ITB may be the one in the end or maybe not. just seeing what else is available to use as a 2 track recorder as I will be going into the analog world for some of these experiments and will need to come back into Digital for delivery to mastering. might try coming back in at 24/96 goodtimes hope this helps clear things up. cheers john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Like David says, you're already doing part of the mastering process. Nothing wrong with that. Why don't you master it yourself? You got plenty of great gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1192 Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 hi triplets, the singer I am working with has done all her records with the same mastering guy for years. i am really looking forward to working with him on this project. will help me with my own mastering as well / I can always learn from his ears and outside perspective. I will be doing it here for myself as well. if mine sounds better - well, I will cross that bridge if need be. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 i am not doing any of his work. (...) I would like to try some Analog outboard for flavor But that's exactly part of his work. Like I said, nothing wrong if you want to do the mastering yourself or if you want to deliver a reference of what you're shooting for to your mastering engineer, but in general they should be provided a dry bounced file to work with. At least that way they have the choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1192 Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 david, I understand what you are saying but it is not entirely accurate in This case. after I do some listening it may well go the way of a dry signal getting to mastering. from me, mastering will receive both processed and unprocessed mixes. and he will also hear my home mastered version for reference. I do not want to give them to many option. I am doing this as if I was using a console for the analog flavor with a 2-buss comp on the console (I am sure you agree, this is done all the time.) as well as doing a pass inside Logic using plugins like the analog outboard. this is where I am coming from. I am not trying to do the mastering guys work for him at all. just doing my work for flavor on my mixes. It can be hard on these forums to know someone's level of experience, and I understand you do not know me from adam. and are only trying to help me. a little background for you. Over the past 33 years I have been a working musician / sound mixer for TV / multi-track capture engineer for live broadcast and VHS - DVD release/ tech producer for live TV capture of Music acts / DVD authoring company as Surround Mixer, Restorations of old TV shows with music and dialog / director for live music TV for house of blues / camera operator in multi-cam situations and single camera capture / asst. director for music / most jobs in TV and music over the years. tech producing for TV and being a camera Op make most of the money for me these days. this project that I ask all these questions about has been a fun project for me as I am writing, playing, producing, mixing and getting to work with a fun and talented singer from Boston. please know that I so appreciate all the knowledge that flows through this forum. thank you again for all your help in the many disciplines it takes to do this crazy work with computers instead of hardware. and helping me do it from start to finish in Logic. this has truly been a great experience. cheers john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I am doing this as if I was using a console for the analog flavor with a 2-buss comp on the console That's my point: you're not. You're mixing in Logic, using Logic's digital 2-buss. THEN you take that mixed stereo signal and run it through further processing. Whether you do it in real time or after the fact on a mix that you bounced out of Logic is irrelevant, the result would be exactly the same in this case. Processing your mixed stereo signal is part of the mastering engineer's job, whether it's to compress it, give it a "tape" sound (very, very common in mastering), an analog flavor, EQ it, add reverb etc... If you want an analog 2-buss sound, you need to MIX on an analog device, for example an analog console, or an analog summing bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1192 Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 oh my, we are not on the same page. I was just asking for options on what outboard 2 mix device people are using these days. before I go out for a bite, I will say this to help be more clear. if you use a console and send your channels or sub-mixes to the console's 2 mix buss and then insert 2 buss processing on the console master channel insert before mastering, you are not taking the mastering engineers job away from him. this is done all the time. so, I am running Logic as my console, sending the 2 mix out of Logic, acting in the place of the insert. running through that same gear as if it was on the console's 2 buss insert. and returning into Logic or recording to an external 2 track. does this still seem odd to you ? I am the old Dog having a hard time giving up his hardware sound for the truly digital path. thank you kindly, john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 IMO whatever processing you apply to a stereo mix is part of mastering, and is better left to the mastering engineer. You don't have to agree, and if you don't trust your mastering engineer 100%, or you think he might not have access to the kind of gear you have, or not know how to use it as well as you do, then by all means, process your stereo mix before sending it to him. I personally have never seen any producer/mixing engineer start processing the stereo mix before sending it to the mastering engineer. What I have seen on occasion is mixing engineers who like to put processing plug-ins on their stereo mix channel before they start mixing, to make their summing bus sound closer to an analog summing bus or even a tape. In that case they may have certain compression plug-in(s) or even hardware that they put on the mix bus, then they start mixing. This also allows them to adjust the processing they do on the individual channel strips while having a closer idea of what their actions will sound like once the mix is mastered. Generally they will also send the dry mix to the mastering engineer, although I know a couple mixers who will only deliver the processed mix. At the end of the day, IMO it's about how much balls you have. I mean if you know exactly what you're doing, and you're utterly convinced that it sounds good and that it's exactly the sound you're going for, no one will argue with you. After all, if it sounds good, it's good, right? But if you're even slightly unsure about it, better let someone who knows their job do it as they'll probably do it better than you. Like you said, I don't know what your level of skill is, or what your personality is, so only you can tell what workflow suits you better. If a beginner guitar player asks on a board if it's ok to play the strings with their teeth rather than a pick, everybody will probably tell him he's insane and that's the stupidest idea they've ever heard. Didn't stop Jimi Hendrix, did it? I was just asking for options on what outboard 2 mix device people are using these days. Then maybe my advice is completely irrelevant and I should have stayed out of this thread except for saying "I don't use any". But no, I couldn't do that, I just HAD to give you my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1192 Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 David, your .02 is worth more like a dollar. . Your opinion is not discounted. I have mastered my own work (surround and stereo) many times and do have the Balls as you say. Do I trust this guy. That is yet to be seen. My concern is due to the fact that this mastering will be done Unsupervised in Boston. A little scary indeed. I do like the sound of my outboard gear. Not sure yet what he will bring to the table yet sonically. We shall see. Thanks again for your time and opinions. Please never feel you have to hold off on any of my posts. Good conversations and discussions. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I have mastered my own work (surround and stereo) many times and do have the Balls as you say. Do I trust this guy. That is yet to be seen. My concern is due to the fact that this mastering will be done Unsupervised in Boston. A little scary indeed. Aaaaah see all of that changes everything. Now I understand where you're coming from. I was answering this thread under the assumption that if you hired a mastering engineer it was because you trusted him better than yourself to do the job (which is usually my situation), but I understand now that this specific situation might not be like that at all. Well then be proud and be loud. You've got enough experience in this industry to know that in order to get the best result possible, sometimes you have to break the rules. I was just giving your the rules. You're old enough to know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1192 Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 thank you and have a great day in the valley. june gloom is upon us at the beach. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.