dkgross Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 From KVR.com. (this sooo pisses me off), Native Instruments has announced that in order to utilize its development resources in the best interest of its wider userbase, it has decided to discontinue the Kore product range. As an immediate consequence, Kore 2 and all Kore-based instruments and effects will no longer be offered for sale. The Kore Player will also be no longer available for download. The Kore 2 software will be supported through further maintenance updates for the time being. Two updates that will optimize the compatibility with current setups are currently in preparation: The first update will integrate the latest engine versions of Absynth 5, FM8, Guitar Rig 4, Massive, Kontakt 4 and Reaktor 5, and is scheduled for the third quarter of this year; a further update will provide 64-bit plugin versions for Windows and Mac OS X, and is scheduled for the fourth quarter. Technical support for Kore will also continue to be available. Future versions of the Komplete bundle and of individual NI instruments might no longer be fully compatible with Kore, and will not include special preset versions for its sound browser. Development resources will be refocused from Kore to Maschine and its popular instrument hosting features. Maschine will be enhanced with specific preset management and parameter mapping features for Komplete and individual NI instruments in the upcoming free 1.7 update, and will be further expanded in its role as the central NI instruments host in the future. Owners of the full versions of Kore 1 or Kore 2 (excluding software-only versions) who are interested in Maschine can purchase a special crossgrade price of $449 / €399 until the end of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkgross Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 I am SOO not paying $500 for that Maschine thing that I'll never use. KORE 2 (even without the hardware) is a magnificent piece of software to help program and organize the 15,000+ sounds that come with all the NI Komplete (and other products). WTF are they thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruari Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I've been watching this unfold over at the NI Forum for the last few days, there are some really unhappy people out there. I don't have Kore so I don't really understand what it does but it seems that the people who do have it have developed a workflow that really relies on it's capabilities. Of course I have no idea what NI are planning in the future but it does look like they've dropped a bit of a clanger at the moment. http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=124 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillo jr Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 KORE 2 (even without the hardware) is a magnificent piece of software to help program and organize the 15,000+ sounds that come with all the NI Komplete (and other products). WTF are they thinking? Agreed! I only have the Kore Player and a few packs but it's brilliant for those of us that are not into the geekdom of synth tweaking. I love what even that limited interface of the player can do. What a weird decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarRothermich Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Count me in as one of the pissed off Kore users. "Native Instruments has announced that in order to utilize its development resources in the best interest of its wider userbase, it has decided to discontinue the Kore product range. " I don't know why companies still putting out this PR bull%^$. The same nonsense like "... he's leaving the company to spend more time with his family" Wait ... Native Instruments latest press release just came in: "The reason we kicked the Kore users in the nuts was because we think it is in the best interest of our wider userbase to walk around with blue balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruari Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 …I only have the Kore Player and a few packs but it's brilliant for those of us that are not into the geekdom of synth tweaking. I love messing around with my synths, I find that there's something quite satisfying with a bit of knob manipulation I've only opened Kore Player two maybe three times since I got Komplete 7. I thought it was just a way of playing presets from the various NI synths so I've ignored Kore Player & spent time with them instead. Is Kore Player the same thing as Kore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarRothermich Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Is Kore Player the same thing as Kore? Your question pretty much sums it up. The concept of Kore was too confusing. You have the Kore hardware, then the Kore software that is not necessary for the software that plays different synth engines but is not a synth itself, and Kore can play Kontakt instruments but Kore sounds of Kontakt instruments cannot be played in Kontakt ... In its core, Kore was a great concept but the execution was terrible. Same with the Kore hardware, a nice piece but the software navigation, absolute horrible. The navigation on the little display of my Yamaha DX7 was more logical and easier and that was 25 years ago. About your question: 1) There is the Kore2 plugin2) There is the Kore2 Player plugin (a limited, light version of Kore2)3) There is the Kore2 controller4) There is the confusion between Kore (original) and Kore2 (new). The version number is used sometimes but not all the times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarRothermich Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Talking about the navigation of the Kore2 Controller in my previous post. Here is a diagram I created last year, trying to understand the "logic" behind the navigation with those descriptive buttons like F1, F2, F3, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillo jr Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 …I only have the Kore Player and a few packs but it's brilliant for those of us that are not into the geekdom of synth tweaking. I love messing around with my synths, I find that there's something quite satisfying with a bit of knob manipulation I've only opened Kore Player two maybe three times since I got Komplete 7. I thought it was just a way of playing presets from the various NI synths so I've ignored Kore Player & spent time with them instead. Is Kore Player the same thing as Kore? The main thing for me with the Kore player is the ability to easily manipulate the sounds with the six knobs and the 8 warp pads. Lots of variation there with already very cool sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruari Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Thanks for the explanation Edgar, it's like a synth which isn't a synth because it needs other soft synths installed before you can make any sounds with it? The main thing for me with the Kore player is the ability to easily manipulate the sounds with the six knobs Am I right in assuming you can assign the six knobs to more than one parameter at once so they start to function in the same way as the Macro Controls in Massive? Unless there's something I'm missing - which wouldn't be too out of the ordinary - by the sound of it the hardware would only really benefit someone who didn't have knobs on their MIDI controller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillo jr Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Since I only have the player, I'm not sure how assignments work with Kore 2. In the Player, everything is pre-assigned. Each knob (8 not 6, sorry) controls one thing, like filter cutoff or FX mix. Depending on the kind of sound bank loaded (like if it's from the Reactor Spark bank or from the Acoustic Refractions bank), the thing that each knob controls will change but within a soundpack will remain mostly consistent. See the images below. The Pads OTOH will control several of the knob parameters at once so sweeping through the pads changes the six knobs all at once. Those bits of programming are also hardwired in the Player. It's enough for me because there's so much variety that you can create this way with no mess and no fuss. It's really very similar to the control section of Alchemy. With Kore 2, I have no idea what you can swap around. (DK would know more about this, I think.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruari Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Ok, so the knobs are assigned to one thing & the pads sound more similar to the Macro Controls in Massive - where you turn a single knob & many parameters will change. I think I'm going to have another look at the Kore Player a bit later on, I'm getting quite intrigued by it but I still think I'll be approaching it as a preset player. Have you ever looked at Reaktor Spark in the actual Reaktor? I'm wondering if the sounds are exactly the same in Kore Player pack & Reaktor Spark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Savage Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 I am appalled as well. I can sorta imagine they put out B4 and the like to pasture as they were old, but how many years has Kore been around? I am glad that I didn't get it, and I will be extremely sceptical before I will ever get another NI product. When they retired B4, Akoustik Piano, Elektrik Piano en Pro53 I said that NI was focusing on the House market and this is another confirmation of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nublu Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Perhaps it's not so much them cancelling Kore as it is them introducing their new product called %*)^@#$(*. It works with everything and already has a lot of people using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkgross Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 I started with NI Komplete 3 and kept updating.. I hate to think of all the $$ I've spent (actually..come to think of it..I pissed awas $1000 on one of NI's "ProTools Bundles" eons ago.. The fact that they've killed B4, and the Spektral Delay (WHICH IS AMAZING) just bugs me. I didn't get THAT deep into the Kore 2 hardware, other than to use it as a real time controller within Komplete and the sounds.. The main thing was that, with the Komplete Packages, you have nearly 15,000 patches/sounds programs!! Reaktor on it own had thousands. Having ONE centralized and organized database made it really easy to get into patches that you might not otherwise find. I didn't get that into programming my own Kore patches tho. Just didn't take the time to learn the UI, as there were other things I wanted to explore. I love using the controller to morph between the 8 sounds in the matrix tho.. The whole DJ focus thing just bugs the crap out of me. I really love Kontakt, Battery, the Upright Pianos...Reaktor..so many great things in the Komplete package (and, when it goes on sale, it's an INSANE bargain). But..sheeeeeesh...i am SOOO not getting Maschine. ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyshooter Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I'm so glad I heard about this. I almost pulled the plug on an eBay auction for a Kore rack processor, and a bunch of NI plug-ins. Saw this over at gearslutz.com a couple of days ago - thankfully the night the auction ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el-bo Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 people who do have it have developed a workflow that really relies on it's capabilities. this is because NI touted it as the kore/heart of your studio...some folks have mapped all their instruments to templates and become really dependent on this 'core', only to have it ripped out no one is suggesting that NI throw good money after bad, but it is the fact that they let it die by not developing it...worse still, it is evident that they have known this for far too long to have not said anything i don't own kore, but have been watching the debacle unfold over on kvr...i have lost confidence in NI as a result.....i own battery, reaktor and a liter version of guitar rig....the fact that they are releasing so many effects that rely on guitar rig as a shell should make me confident that they will keep the guitar rig format going..instead, i just fear the day they get rid, and none of it works anymore i feel quite safe with reaktor, but i fear that battery will get swallowed up by kontakt or maschine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkgross Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 I would expect to see anything new from Battery either. Sounds haven't been updated in forever ;( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el-bo Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I would expect to see anything new from Battery either. Sounds haven't been updated in forever ;( the core library, no..but they did add some sampling effects that mimic certain classic samplers not so long ago...it's probably also 64bit (though i don't have any need to take note of such developments, at this point) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdude9k Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I've never been a huge fan of Kore, I've always found its execution to be pretty terrible as discussed earlier in this post. However, to say that you've pissed away $1,000's of dollars on something I think is incorrect. Have you been able to make music with it for the last 2, 3, 5 years? (however long you've had it). Are you still able to make music with it? Yes. Are they still supporting it? Yes. Will it still run on your current and future computers? Yes. Will they add any new features? Yes. (64-bit) Thats not really the end of the world. Some people still use guitars from the 50's! And those haven't been updated in 60 years but you can still make music with them. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drift Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I've never been a huge fan of Kore, I've always found its execution to be pretty terrible as discussed earlier in this post. However, to say that you've pissed away $1,000's of dollars on something I think is incorrect. Have you been able to make music with it for the last 2, 3, 5 years? (however long you've had it). Are you still able to make music with it? Yes. Are they still supporting it? Yes. Will it still run on your current and future computers? Yes. Will they add any new features? Yes. (64-bit) Thats not really the end of the world. Some people still use guitars from the 50's! And those haven't been updated in 60 years but you can still make music with them. Right? Finally some sense and perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarRothermich Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I've never been a huge fan of Kore, I've always found its execution to be pretty terrible as discussed earlier in this post. However, to say that you've pissed away $1,000's of dollars on something I think is incorrect. Have you been able to make music with it for the last 2, 3, 5 years? (however long you've had it). Are you still able to make music with it? Yes. Are they still supporting it? Yes. Will it still run on your current and future computers? Yes. Will they add any new features? Yes. (64-bit) Thats not really the end of the world. Some people still use guitars from the 50's! And those haven't been updated in 60 years but you can still make music with them. Right? Finally some sense and perspective. WIth all due respect, there is so much wrong with the picture you are painting or supporting I don't even know where to start. First of all, drift I think Rockdud9k put some perspective in it but in a way that it made 'No sense" to me. I agree with Rockdud9k with being not a huge fan of Kore myself. It was an interesting idea with a terrible execution. Same thing with the Kore hardware, a beautiful piece with a terrible interface. I really liked the overall concept of a player that can handle multiple engines and combines them with a powerful sound database management system. As with many software sometimes it takes a generation or two for the developer to get it right and that's why I had hope for it to get better. And this is the main point you are missing. It is not about some plugin XY that comes and goes, you use it in a few tracks that sells two copies on CDbaby or helps you to create a mega hit. Your $1k balance sheet is highly flawed when you just factor in the initial investment and look at the return. I'm sure you didn't do it but how about all those users who spend countless hours/days to build their sound database with Kore, tag their sound and bought into NI promise of that revolutionary system and then get slapped in the face by NI. On top of that adding insult to injury, reading that PR garbage that it was in the interest of the user base. That is just low. How about an apology from NI that besides buying into your failed product, being misled, ending up with a damage that can exceed the $1k if you value your time as money. Are you still able to make music with it? Yes Yes if you just want to fiddle around in your basement, but no, if you need some kind of backwards compatibility and want to open the project in a few years (on a new unsupported system) Are they still supporting it? Yes That depends what you consider "support". If there is the tiniest hicup in a point release of OS or Logic that breaks Kore then good luck with that NI Kore support Will it still run on your current and future computers? Yes. How can you even answer that with a yes regarding future computer. Was there any period of time in the last few years that we didn't have to struggle with constant upgrade compatibility issues. OS9-OSX-PPC-Intel-64bit and that is only on the Mac side. Do you see the writing on the wall for our PC friends with Windows 8 and their rewrites. That goes back to my previous point, if you want to risk any EOL product in your current project. Will they add any new features? Yes Sorry, but this is not an added feature. This is an upgrade that was due for a year now when Logic went 64bit in 2010. When it finally comes (Dec 31st) it will be over one and a half year after Logic 64bit and how many round of bug fixes will NI release to get the it working? Thats not really the end of the world. Sorry, but this is such a generic statement that ends any kind of discussion, like "shut up" ("America is engaged in three open wars - that's not the end of the world so why complaining about it?" see how it works) Some people still use guitars from the 50's! And those haven't been updated in 60 years but you can still make music with them. Sorry but I can't follow that rational. I thought we are talking about software and last time I checked, a guitar was a hardware device. I know there is often a lot of uproar from demanding users for even small things that can drive a developer insane. But in the case of Kore I think the uproar is justified because NI was misleading their user base in a big way. I don't know the real reason for their decision and of course they won't tell. Maybe it is a based on the tough economic climate or they don't have enough capable programmer that can make the Kore idea happen. Either way, acknowledge the mistake and apologies to the user base would be the right thing to do to keep a loyal user base. But they decided not to, knowing that they would loose old customers and potential new customers because they might have figured out that there are more DJs out there than musicians they can sell their DJ toys to in the future. PS: Rockdude9k, I respect your expertise and contribution to the Logic forum so please don't take my critique personally.Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdude9k Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Wow, I stured up a hornets nest. I should of known that would happen. I haven't read all your comments yet but I will and respond later today. Don't worry I won't take anything personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdude9k Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Ok....where to begin.... Apparently not being an active Kore user I have not understood how much people really are upset about this. That being said, none of us can expect that all software will last forever. I have seen sample libraries come and go, plug-ins go by the wayside and amazing pieces of software disappear. We cannot expect in the age of exponential computer growth that software will always be backwards compatible. One of the reason's Apple has been so successful over the years is because they have never been backwards compatible. Windows on the other hand tries to always be backwards compatible and therefore becomes bloated and well Windows. Regardless, I guess this is a big one. Most times I would go through point by point and defend myself but I'm backing out. I"m wiping my hands clean. I made my statement (regardless of its validity) and thats it. Have fun guys, I'll see ya next time when I know a little bit more about the issue. See ya next time Edgar. Good luck with finding work arounds for Kore and remember, if you want to protest, NI's offices are in LA. You can always go break down their door! Native Instruments 5631 A Hollywood Boulevard, Los Angeles, CA 90028 USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nublu Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 We cannot expect in the age of exponential computer growth that software will always be backwards compatible. The increase in capacity is exactly why we can expect a higher degree of compatibility. Many of us are experienced enough, educated enough, and know enough sys admins and developers, to know the difference between actual compatibility issues and obsolescence, especially agenda driven planned obsolescence. Planned obsolescence sucks. It's execution sucks more. Obsolescence due to lock-in and shifts in "strategic alliances" suck. Obsolescence because of market reluctance sucks. Obsolescence because of great ideas that are semi-realized sucks. Obsolescence because of a shear lack of dialogue between developer and customer sucks. I believe the frustrations expressed here are part of a larger undercurrent of "transition aggravation and fatigue". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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