Guidelines for properly setting up Stereo Field

[Scotopia]

Hello All,

 

This is kind of a broad question, but I am a total newb when it comes to thinking about my music's stereo image, and I was hoping to stimulate some discussion on typical setups for varying styles of music as well as general best practices. For example I've heard that you drums and vocals should usually stay in the center, etc.

 

I am currently working in Logic Studio and I know how to pull up the goniometer in the multimeter, but my degree of perceiving that boils down to something akin to "a bigger pulsing blob is probably better than a smaller pulsing blob". Hence, right now pretty much all my works in progress have zero panning on anything, which I'm quite sure is a bad thing

 

Any insight anyone could offer would be much appreciated; thanks!

[EdgarRothermich]

In my opinion this is not about "stimulate some discussion", it is about understanding the basics first. Your mixes don't get better if you get a few tips and tricks here and thee from a forum. You should do the first step and educate yourself to have a basic understanding. There are many books and videos out there if you don't want to enroll in any more expensive classes. Equipped with that knowledge you can ask much better detailed questions and get better results (tips) that improves your skills down the road.

 

I think the forum should be used for trouble shooting, exchanging experiences, or helping each other when stuck with a specific problem or better understanding a procedure. I don't think it should replace the personal responsibility of reading the Manual first and educate yourself to a degree.

 

And no, your drums shouldn't stay in the center, your kick drum yes. But this is not necessarily an aesthetic decision but has its foundation in understanding physics (wavelength vs location in the stereo field)

And no, your vocals shouldn't stay in the center, your lead vocals yes. Background vocals, double, etc .. different story

[David Nahmani]

When mixing, you paint a picture in a frame by positioning instruments (or sounds). If you don't use panning, you're not using the whole frame, just part of it. Why not use the whole frame?

 

The frame is the stereo field. You have four tools to play with in order to position instruments: volume, stereo position, frequency content, depth. If you forget about one of those tools (for example you leave all your pan buttons centered), you may have to exaggerate the use of another tool to compensate (for example EQ your guitar and piano a LOT because they're both in the same stereo position, while panning the guitar to the left and the piano to the right would separate them so you don't need to EQ them all that much).

 

My rule of thumb is lead vocals, snare, kick drum and bass in the center. Try to balance similar instruments (you have two crunch rhythm electric guitar? Put one on the left the other on the right).

 

Finally, try to use your ears. Do NOT start working with a goniometer or anykindofmeter. Just pan and use your ears. A LOT of newbies assume that if you pan a sound to, say "-23", that corresponds to a specific position in the stereo field. That's not the case, a panning of "-23" will not give you the same position depending on a sound's frequency content, transient content, depending on the performance (sustained notes vs many repeated notes), depending on its volume, the amount of reverb used, etc etc...

 

USE YOUR EARS! That's the single most important thing.

[David Nahmani]

I think the forum should be used for trouble shooting, exchanging experiences, or helping each other when stuck with a specific problem or better understanding a procedure. I don't think it should replace the personal responsibility of reading the Manual first and educate yourself to a degree.

Wow Edgar I think you came down a little harsh on the poor guy.

 

That question may have been wrong for the "Logic" forum as it's not Logic specific, so I moved it to the Control Room. But I personally think it's a perfectly legitimate question. The manual won't tell you if the piano should be on the left or on the right. The OP is just asking for techniques, tips, on how people like panning stuff in their mixes. Nothing wrong with that IMO.

[EdgarRothermich]

Sorry if my statement was a little bit too strong, my apologies Scotopia.

I just tried to make a point that the subject is a very difficult and complex one and can't be approached with a "quick fix". Maybe my tone was a little bit influenced by the frustration with the American school system that I'm experiencing right now with my 10 year old son. The teaching seems to be more focused on acquiring fun facts, multiple choice (=multiple guess) and handing out trophies than teaching fundamentals and understanding basics that you can build on (But that topic has to moved to a completely different Forum).

 

David, I would add one more consideration to your excellent advise about using your ears:

After acquiring all the knowledge how to use the technology the final judgement has to be your ears. (taste is a total different ball park). I agree with that you should not START working with meters, but my advice would be to work TOGETHER with meters. For one thing, they can tell you why you are hearing what you hearing and you will gain a lot of experience if you make that connection.

 

But more important is the medium that you are listening through! I would guess that most of the Logic users are working in home based studio at best with not so perfect acoustic conditions, let alone the speakers. If you trust only your ears than you might be in for a big surprise. You might not hear the 10Hz Bass boost on your little speakers but the frequency analyzer will tell you. Or you might not hear that you have an out of phase signal in your mix because the speakers are placed to close together but the scope will show it very clearly.

 

Also and excellent point about pan position. It is not about a trick/tip that -23 (or any other number) is the best. The answer is as almost "it depends", and you have to know the parameters and understand them (to some degree) to make your best judgement on how much you are gonna twist that knob.

[ski]

I think Edgar summed it up perfectly when he said, "it depends".

 

I'll give you my perspective, and I've been doing music professionally for a very very long time! And my perspectives on what I like to hear stereo-wise have even changed over the years. For example, I used to think it was so incredibly cool when a piano sound was panned (mic'd, or, using samples) where the lower notes were predominantly in the L speaker, higher notes in the R. But you know what? I absolutely hate that sound now. It's not only highly artificial, I think it sounds flat out awful. I'll go so far as to say it sounds stupid.

 

Orchestral music. Sometimes I hear orchestral pieces, whether sampled or the real thing, and the violins are panned hyper hard left, the basses hyper hard right, and so on. Basically, these mixes try to represent the real placement of the instruments in an orchestra, but to an extreme (the soundtrack to Aladdin is an example of extreme panning which I find really unpleasant despite the incredible arrangements and orchestration). Again, I think that kind of extreme panning is awful, and it takes me out of the audience when I hear it. I'm not into hearing orchestral music where things shift in space.

 

Reverb is another story. That needs to be hard L/R so that it fills in the space. So basically I like to hear a fairly narrow stereo representation of the instruments in my mixes, but I always leave the reverb to sound naturally panned hard L/R.

 

Dance music. I love to hear ping-pong delays bouncing between L/R as wide as possible. The HH should be off to one side slightly, but I don't care if it's on the left or right. Speaking of which...

 

Drums... There's the whole "audience perspective vs. drummer's perspective" thing when it comes to panning HH's and toms. Me? I couldn't care less which side that stuff is panned to. But the kick has to be up the center. Otherwise a mix sounds off-balance to me.

 

So there are some perspectives, and none of them are shaped by what "should be" other than a few conventions (kick up the center) and my own taste for things. Ultimately, though, my personal "rules" for panning all boil down to "it depends". And yours should too!

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

I think Edgar summed it up perfectly when he said, "it depends".

 

That's most often the answer of an expert in any field. You can usually spot someone without thorough knowledge by getting "definitive" answers from them.

 

Drums... There's the whole "audience perspective vs. drummer's perspective" thing when it comes to panning HH's and toms. Me? I couldn't care less which side that stuff is panned to. But the kick has to be up the center. Otherwise a mix sounds off-balance to me.

 

Agreed. Again, it depends, but "unnaturally" panned kits can sound great, I love it when toms are mixed left and right, even though on a kit they'd usually be all to one side.

[David Nahmani]

I used to think it was so incredibly cool when a piano sound was panned (mic'd, or, using samples) where the lower notes were predominantly in the L speaker, higher notes in the R. But you know what? I absolutely hate that sound now. It's not only highly artificial, I think it sounds flat out awful. I'll go so far as to say it sounds stupid.

 

Yeah it makes it sound like you're inside the piano.

 

Which is another point about panning and mixing in general. I gave you four tools (loudness, stereo position, frequency content, depth) to position sounds in your mix. Notice I did NOT say (level fader, pan, EQ and reverb). That's because even though those may be the obvious "go-to" plug-ins to affect the aforementioned parameters, they're not the only ones.

 

For example, in ski's example, the piano is so extremely panned that it appears extremely close to you. Narrow its image by bringing the L and R signals closer together and the piano is getting away from you, creating distance between its location and your ears. One example of using panning (rather than the obvious reverb) for depth perception.

[Scotopia]

When mixing...

 

Thanks David; that all makes sense; especially the part about panning two instruments in a similar frequency spectrum apart from each other to create space. I've learned how to use EQ's to create space also, but it makes sense that you you can use both of these techniques to create balance; thanks!