What key is this in? Is there a key change?

[modul8tr]

 

Hello all,

 

Was just listening to this in the car moments ago, and decided to switch my brain from passive listener, into ear training mode.

 

 

Everything was going fine until the last two chords in the progression threw me off.

 

I was thinking it was B minor, shifting to B harmonic minor the second time we hear the 7th degree harmonized.

 

Here's the arpeggiated chord pattern I am hearing:

 

F# D B x4 (Bm) I

 

A E C x4 (Am) vii replacing the C# with C, making it minor.

 

G D B x4 (GM) VI

 

F D A# x4 (A#M) VII or F D B♭ x4 (B♭M) The 7th degree of the *natural minor* scale is major though. In harmonic minor it is diminished. But, no biggie, could just be an altered chord on the harmonic scale?

 

G E C x4 (CM) unless this is really A C E G (Am7) and this is still the 7th degree of the natural minor scale?

 

 

So the last two chords for me - assuming I am in the right key and there is no key change - still have a big question marks on them. I've given my idea of the options (altered chords) to keep them in B minor, but I'm not sure if that's what is actually happening.

 

Anyone care to take a stab at this?

[ski]

Good for you for trying to analyze it!

 

B minor

A minor

G major

Bb major

C major

 

The song is in B minor. It takes a little excursion when it goes to Bb, but that doesn't change the key.

 

They're all arpeggiated triads, no harmonic or natural minors involved (which, BTW, aren't keys; they're types of scales).

 

If I were to overanalyze this a little bit (which you've done too LOL!) then I could say that it's a chord progression that contains "mediant" relationships. These are chord relationships that are spaced by thirds. The B minor to G is one mediant, and the G major to Bb major is another.

 

In fact, if you play regular triads of Bb and G (in the range around middle C) you'll have the first two chords of a very famous Star Wars theme. Try it!

[modul8tr]

Thank you so much for your input.

 

The mediant relationships are an interesting thought. G maj is the relative major of B minor. And A minor the relative minor of C major. Both thirds. One major, one minor.

 

Leaving only B flat major, or the enharmonic A# major (which appears in the B harmonic minor mode) as the only chord without an obvious mediant relationship. Maybe a chromatic mediant to the Am chord?

 

Still curious as to whether this C maj chord which doesn't appear in the Bm scale is technically a key change. Or is it simply the mediant relationship? Which is still a key change right?

 

Also, are the B flat to G chords you mentioned, the Star Wars theme? The theme (with yhe brass) is B flat if I remember, with the b section (the lush string bit) in A minor?

 

Thanks again!

[ski]

You're welcome!

 

The Bb major chord isn't really enharmonically A# (because A# major isn't actually a key). You can have A# notes, but not A# major. If such a thing existed the key signature would have to include lots of double sharps, and that never happens:

 

A# B# C## D# F G G##

 

Or, another hypothetical variant would be this scale, which includes one sharp, one flat, and one double sharp (which again, never happens)

 

A# C D Eb F G G##

 

The key is still B min. And just because the piece is in B minor doesn't mean that chords outside of the scale can't be present in the music. It happens all the time. And of course, the antithesis of this is atonal music there is (theoretically) no key. So if you find a chord that's "outside" of the scale notes then it's perfectly normal.

 

In classical music, temporarily switching to a different key (or key center, as it's sometimes called) is called a region ("a region of Eb-") or an excursion or an episode.

 

In this track, B minor, A minor, and G major are all 'expected' chords when you make root-position triads out of the scale notes from a B minor scale. The Bb and C major chords are wild cards, but ultimately they resolve to the B minor. Sometimes the best analysis comes in the form of feeling how the chords move and resolve ("harmonic gravity") rather than trying to examine their scalar or modal relationships. Note! -- not that analysis is a bad thing, not at all! But sometimes feeling trumps theory). So in this case, and to my sensibilities, the Bb and C chords are a cool excursion away from B-, but ultimately I feel that they both pull me back to B minor.

 

Mediant relationships are not necessarily key changes. For example, in the Star Wars theme (yup, with the brass), the first measure simplified (and if we're in 4/4) would be Bb (2 beats) and G (2 beats). If we were changing keys then there would have to be a key signature in the middle of the bar. Since the pattern repeats so much... well, that ain't gonna happen LOL! Assuming it was written in the key of G, then the Bb chord would simply be notated with an accidental on the B (i.e. Bb).

 

Now...

 

Let's say you had a song, cue, or other piece of music that started in G major and switched back and forth every 32 bars between G major and Bb minor for a while. Here it would make sense to put a key signature change in the score each time the key center changes. But does that mean the piece is in G major? I'd say it does. In this example you would be right in analyzing the Bb minor parts as key changes. But ultimately if the music's "harmonic gravity" makes it feel as though it resolves when it returns to G major, I'd say the piece was in G major.

 

Gotta fly. HTH!

 

Ski

[modul8tr]

Thanks Ski for all the great info! It's helped a lot.

 

And you're right, it's always about feel ultimately. PVT certainly weren't analyzing chords as they were writing it.

 

 

Thanks