String Section 01 sounds fake. How do I make it realistic?

[marlaney]

I am very new to Logic and the Mac OS . Is there anything I can do to the strings after I record them that make them sound at least a little more realistic? Maybe filters or inserts (as I think they're called). Maybe even just a good reverb and channel EQ. They would sound more realistic if they had good tremolo but I have no idea how to do that.

[ski]

In what way do they sound fake?

[marlaney]

The sustained notes are mostly what I'm talking about. Is there any way to do vibrato? (I said tremolo but I meant vibrato). Sometimes the transition between notes doesn't sound real either but that is probably easy to fix. I found that by using Automation, I could make it sound better but the sustained notes still sound fake.

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

You can record vibrato with the mod wheel on your midi controller.

 

Or, as I'm getting more into, you can get a cheap monophonic guitar-to-midi converter and play much more expressive strings/horns that way; playing a few instances with natural vibrato and blending them.

 

What gear do you have?

[ski]

BTW, I couldn't find a "String Section 01" sound on my system.

 

The thing about using the modwheel (when it's programmed to do vibrato, and that's not always the case) is this: 99 times out of 100, that's going to sound fake too. Sounds to me like you need to investigate some of the other stock Logic string sounds (or even other sample libraries entirely) that have string with the right vibe for what you're doing. Then again, it's kinda difficult to really be able to hone in on what you need to do to make things sound more realistic without actually hearing what you're doing. But as a general bit of advice you can try this trick: to blend in a solo violin sound (playing only the melody) over the string sound you're using now, fading it in and out as you need more/less vibrato.

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

Honestly Ski, there's nothing like playing in the vibrato yourself.

 

If you want full bends, set the pitch bend to 2 semi-tones, or if you just want vibrato, set it to 1 semi tone.

 

Not so good for big trombone slides, but with some editing I still find it much better than a keyboard.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Sonuus-Universal-Guitar-MIDI-Converter/dp/B001P7QSE4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1315170983&sr=8-1

 

Not reliable enough for live playing, but with a small amount of tweaking, it leads to very expressive strings/horns/woodwinds.

 

I'll post a little example if you like.

[ski]

I couldn't agree more. Real vibrato achieved using pitch bend is soooooo definitely the way to go, but within limits... Solo instrument sounds like guitar, trombone, occasionally flute, sometimes solo strings will work well when adding artificial vibrato by essentially shaking/wobbling the pitch bender. One or two semitones, as you said. If it's a "middle eastern" thing I might go a bit wider.

 

But I never use modwheel (LFO) or pitch bend on ensemble sounds because inevitably it will sound wrong or cheesy. That's because adding artificial pitch bend has the effect of making all members of the recorded ensemble do vibrato at exactly the same rate and depth, which is an impossible occurrence with real players. Ergo, using any pitch bend or vibrato technique on those sounds is going to sound wrong most of the time. By contrast, when a real section increases the emotional intensity by vibrato-ing more deeply, each player does so at a different rate and depth. It's the individuality of the players' style of vibrato and the individual tone of their instruments that's responsible for the emotional quality of increased vibrato that we're talking about.

 

Another problem with using modwheel (LFO) based vibrato is that the waveform chosen for the LFO is usually a sine wave or triangle wave, and both of them only approximate the shape of how vibrato is actually performed. Compounding the problem is that the LFO speed is usually constant, and that's another thing that doesn't happen in the real world. Vibrato speed usually ramps up over the course of a note and doesn't maintain mechanically perfect speed (or depth). But the closest we have to simulate the repeating back & forth action of a player's finger on a string or fluctuations in breath (brass, winds) are those simplistic geometric LFO waveforms. And there are other factors that limit how realistic LFO-based vibrato can be, but I'll stop here for now.

 

One way that sample library developers provide the ability to increase the perceived amount of vibrato is by sampling a section playing with varying degrees of vibrato: none, slight, more intense, very intense -- four samples per note -- and a controller (like modwheel or other CC) is used to crossfade between them. But when that facility isn't built in, there are other tricks you can use, such as the one I described in my previous post.

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

But I never use modwheel (LFO) or pitch bend on ensemble sounds because inevitably it will sound wrong or cheesy.

 

Thought I mentioned layering vibrato, but I didn't!

 

Using samples of whole orchestral sections almost always sounds dodgy in my experience.

 

I guess you like the pitch bend becuase you're a keyboard player, I can't get the same expression from keys, guitar-to-midi gives me much improved expression.

 

Funny you said about vibrato "ramping up" over time, mine almost always slows down over time. Going to have to listen to more players now! Guess it might depend if it's classical or blues/jazz.

[ski]

I guess you like the pitch bend becuase you're a keyboard player, I can't get the same expression from keys, guitar-to-midi gives me much improved expression.

 

If you're adding vibrato to sounds as you described then it's more than likely you're generating pitch bend too. Check your event list.

 

Funny you said about vibrato "ramping up" over time, mine almost always slows down over time. Going to have to listen to more players now! Guess it might depend if it's classical or blues/jazz.

 

Sure, vibrato styles are going to be approached differently according to the musical style, playing style, etc.

 

Regards,

 

Ski

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

If you're adding vibrato to sounds as you described then it's more than likely you're generating pitch bend too. Check your event list.

 

Misunderstanding I think; I'm only generating pitch bend.

 

Anyways...

[marlaney]

You are right ski, it is actually Violin Section 01. I will play around with my modwheel and see what I can do with it. Is there no solo violin (or any other string) in Logic? It would seem that a solo string would be easier to work with than a whole ensemble. But it appears that I am going to have to buy some different sound libraries. I really like VSL but they are way out of my price range so I am considering EWQLSO because they have some nice sounds.

 

BTW, the only midi controller I have is a Roland E-500 keyboard but the guitar to midi does sound worth trying. I attached the song I have been working on so you can hear it.

Sophia's Nocturne-AAC for Audio Podcasting.m4a.zip

[Simon R.]

I am very new to Logic and the Mac OS . Is there anything I can do to the strings after I record them that make them sound at least a little more realistic? Maybe filters or inserts (as I think they're called). Maybe even just a good reverb and channel EQ. They would sound more realistic if they had good tremolo but I have no idea how to do that.

 

1) Buy some better sample collections (EastWest, Los Angeles Scoring Strings (LASS), Vienna (VSL), Cinesamples etc.

 

2) Practice, practice, practice.

[notnelly]

Marlarney,

 

I think you just need a better library. Have a look at Vienna special edition as well, price not too different to EWQL gold.

 

(Interestingly, just had a play with Violin Section 01 and quite surprised to find that mod wheel switches articulations.)