DaniGordon Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 For Apple. Apple thought. Didn't get the The small amount of professional users and niches are not more important than general consumer and hobbyists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaniGordon Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I can agree with that. And they are selling FC Studio again. And yes, the FCPX was hysteria, but not without some foundation. Apple really mishandled the launch - they probably should have launched it as an early take on where FCP is going, and kept FCP7 on the shelves for the next year or so, while FCPX matured, and people learned it and the feature set had caught up to parity to FCP7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaniGordon Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I agree again. If that happened, I would keep my existing Logic for old projects, and start to work with the new one to see what benefits it brought, until it made sense or not to switch. That's the sensible thing to do. Note - current versions of Logic cannot open Logic 1-4 files at all, and struggles with a good percentage of 5-6 projects (ie many it won't load at all, some it will). You have to keep old versions for back compatibility already. Having said that, projects should really be archived in a non-proprietary format anyway, as projects relying on hundreds of third-party software in varying versions will give problems to open one day. By all means save the projects and assets etc as they are, but it's also a good idea to render everything to audio, with and without FX, and midifiles etc for the rest of the data, so you can always open it and work with it on any computer system, with any software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Dani, Your addition of "Apple thought" certainly clears things up, as I thought that you were making that statement. Hence, my initial triple-shock reaction. Apple really mishandled the launch - they probably should have launched it as an early take on where FCP is going, and kept FCP7 on the shelves for the next year or so, while FCPX matured, and people learned it and the feature set had caught up to parity to FCP7. Oh, they seem tp have mishandled things alright. Two aftermath stories from a friend of mine who's a professional graphic designer (invariably, everyone in the music business has seen his work): first one being that Apple, in contrast to their usual policy, doled out many a refund to dissatisfied FCPX customers. That speaks volumes. Second, he told me recently that FCP is back on the shelves. That also speaks volumes about FCPX. Face it: Apple, being no different from so many other companies, sometimes makes mistakes on an epic scale. Though what I find puzzling is how some people rush to defend or try to justify anything they do, especially when it comes to their boneheaded mistakes and policies. And when it comes to the professional musician, graphic designer, or other professional that uses software, they look for progress and improvement, not change for the sake of change or (worse) style. Change will be accepted by them as long as those changes don't send them back to the computing or creative Stone Age, and clearly there are things about FCPX that seem to fit that analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 first one being that Apple, in contrast to their usual policy, doled out many a refund to dissatisfied FCPX customers. Yep, they will refund on FCPX if people didn't find it "fit for purpose". Second, he told me recently that FCP is back on the shelves. That also speaks volumes about FCPX. Last week, available again made FCS available for purchase, but it's not back on the shelves, in stores or on the website - you have to call Apple to buy it, but yes, Apple relented and again made FCS available for sale, which was the sensible thing to do. Apparently, they wanted to do this sooner after the FCPX launch, but there were legal implications they had to work through (ie, support contracts and so on). Face it: Apple, being no different from so many other companies, sometimes makes mistakes on an epic scale. Though what I find puzzling is how some people rush to defend or try to justify anything they do, especially when it comes to their boneheaded mistakes and policies. Perhaps it's a blind love thing... it's difficult to not get offended if someone's insulting your girlfriend... :shrugs: And when it comes to the professional musician, graphic designer, or other professional that uses software, they look for progress and improvement, not change for the sake of change or (worse) style. Change will be accepted by them as long as those changes don't send them back to the computing or creative Stone Age, and clearly there are things about FCPX that seem to fit that analogy. Indeed. Again, as has been said, no one has forced anyone to delete their software on their machines and switch. But pro software users are a passionate lot, especially when it comes to their fundamental tools they have invested in and know intimately, so it's understandable. But I do wish people, especially on the internets, would be a little less reactionary and a little more considered sometimes. The sky may be slowly changing colour, but it isn't falling on anyone's heads just yet... I like where FCPX is going - it's just not there yet. And there are things in it that are annoying, that will get smoothed out over time - it certainly *seems* like Apple are committed to it, which is good. Anyway - don't want to get into an FCP debate really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Face it: Apple, being no different from so many other companies, sometimes makes mistakes on an epic scale. Though what I find puzzling is how some people rush to defend or try to justify anything they do, especially when it comes to their boneheaded mistakes and policies. Perhaps it's a blind love thing... it's difficult to not get offended if someone's insulting your girlfriend... :shrugs: In general (not just at you), I don't understand why people get attached or defensive about software or computers. Like the endless ProTools vs. Logic debates which get so heated, with people digging in their heels with their "what I use is the BEST!!!" positions. I just don't get the (quasi) loyalties or the rivalries. It's one's music (or the quality of whatever they're doing on a DAW) that counts, so I don't get why those kinds of comparisons turn into d!ck measuring contests. But they do, and no one wins, ever. So when people say, "Logic sucks", I'm like, "yeah, sometimes it does". And when people say, "Logic is fantastic", I'm like, "yeah, sometimes it is". And that's because it's both. BTW, this Zen brand coffee I'm drinking makes quite the nice morning brew. Care to try some? I like where FCPX is going - it's just not there yet. And there are things in it that are annoying, that will get smoothed out over time - it certainly *seems* like Apple are committed to it, which is good. Hook me up with a link so I can order myself a pair of those rose-colored spectacles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petsounds Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 My sense is that some lessons were learned at Apple. Hopefully, they see the music creation market differently than they do video. I'm hoping for an upgrade that speaks to both pros and less hardcore users. Well, Apple may have learned a lesson; it's hard to tell at this point. They promised regular updates to put back in missing features, but there hasn't been one yet. But they certainly know they underestimated the PR ability of tv/film video production teams. That Conan piece must've had Apple execs seeing rivers of blood. I wouldn't have wanted to be on the FCP team... Having done a fair bit of programming in another universe, I can say pretty confidently that whatever the new version of Logic is, it will still be 95% of whatever it already was before FCP X came out. I assume they're in the final stretch of development, and at that point unless they decided to delay the launch, they are stuck on the path they chose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furrytoes Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 The other interesting thing to note about FinalCutProX, is that it's not just missing big features - as suggested above. While there's a lot of actually very cool & innovative (and definitely not hobbyist) features there's also plenty of baby-wrapping features that professionals rely on. For example, 3-point editing, a staple editing technique, has been crushed since you can't set just an IN point or OUT point on clips. FCPX gives you the hobbyist, dumbed-down way to edit where it forces you to have both. It also doesn't even remember IN/OUT points you set unless you make them a "Favorite". There's many other examples, and it doesn't bode well for Logic, even if they don't discontinue it, as I speculated above. I've watched 5 hours of tutorials from Michael Wohl, so I have a pretty good overview of it now. And there's a lot of times where he is baffled about "why" they did something in a particular way. Don't get me started on the number of times it's crashed And this is aside from the fact it can't import video from my camera (5 yrs old, not supported - it works but no audio), so I have to keep FinalCutExpress installed forever to be able to import my video. If they just apply same principles, this is not looking good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmm42 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 from a source involved in a "customer interview" with Apple's Logic team. Yes, that seems highly plausible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Please god let them have done a plugin re-organisation feature and let me organise my plugin menus how I want... +1 on this thought.. It's probably, for me, the most wanted GUI improvement... amongst many other ideas I have heard bandied around, that I would really benefit from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Please god let them have done a plugin re-organisation feature and let me organise my plugin menus how I want... I'll +1 on that and raise ya one too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Please god let them have done a plugin re-organisation feature and let me organise my plugin menus how I want... I'll +1 on that and raise ya one too. I call, +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I'll see your +1 and raise ya a bus channel strip. And with that pronouncement, a hush comes over the crowd. It's rare that anyone ever bets a bus channel strip. Heck, most people don't even know what that is! But for those that do, rumor has it that come October when Logic X makes its debut, bets like that will no longer be possible. That's right. And that's because bus channel strips can only be created from the environment, and with Logic X there will be no more environment. Gone. Finis. Kaput. That's what they're saying. Of course this will make the Logic game that much harder to play, because it will make all previous Logic projects incompatible with Logic X. But that's just a rumor, of course. And you heard it here first. Or should I say, you heard it here farce-st? Indeed! And now, back to the game. Let's see what Erik's next move will be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon R. Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 ski. And I hope they fix the (newly introduced) "piano roll doesn't show region content that you lasso" bug. But that'll probably take them a few years like it did with the "piano roll focus" bug. So maybe in Logix XII. I guess not that many people work 99% in the MIDI domain any more, so that's not their focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shivermetimbers Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 This is gonna suck. Ironically, David's new book about Logic 'X' is only going to be 10 pages long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruari Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 …and with Logic X there will be no more environment. Gone. Finis. Kaput. That's what they're saying… It's difficult to tell if you are joking or not, I do hope you are but come release day & there's no environment I feel an "I told you so" coming on. http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/166-i-told-you-so.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I'll see your +1 and raise ya a bus channel strip. HEY! No string bets please. We're not in Rounders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nublu Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 BTW, this Zen brand coffee I'm drinking makes quite the nice morning brew. Care to try some? Yes, I would like some. Serenity, accompanied with a low, electrical transformer like hum is one of my favourite life experiences..... Unless it affects my poker playing... I'll see your +1 and raise ya a bus channel strip. And with that pronouncement, a hush comes over the crowd. It's rare that anyone ever bets a bus channel strip. Heck, most people don't even know what that is! But for those that do, rumor has it that come October when Logic X makes its debut, bets like that will no longer be possible. That's right. And that's because bus channel strips can only be created from the environment, and with Logic X there will be no more environment. Gone. Finis. Kaput. That's what they're saying. Of course this will make the Logic game that much harder to play, because it will make all previous Logic projects incompatible with Logic X. But that's just a rumor, of course. And you heard it here first. Or should I say, you heard it here farce-st? Indeed! And now, back to the game. Let's see what Erik's next move will be... I heard a rumour once that came true. It was about the arrival of Logic 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 @ David, are we playing the same game? Sounds to me like that's Cubase Holdem table rules. But OK, it's your house (even though you ARE late to the game) so I'll withdraw my bet and instead I'll raise 4 input channel strips and an alias assigner. And now, more rumors from the mill... (ruari -- take note!) Logic X will only be available as a download, and that includes all jam pack content, demo content, etc. Even with a high speed internet connection, estimates are that it will take 5 hours on average to download, though it should take significantly less time in those countries with more advanced internet infrastructure (by definition, this excludes the United States). Logic X will be somewhat transitional in the sense that the Audio Unit (AU) format is going to be slowly deprecated (a computer programming term meaning "phased out") and replaced with a new format called "sonic hyper threading" (SHT). This exciting -- if not groundbreaking software technology -- promises to vastly increase audio processing time through plugins. The upside: a significant decrease in thruput latencies, meaning that common complaints such as "why does my guitar sound late when monitoring through Logic" will become a thing of the past. The downside: the growing pains and inevitable plugin incompatibilities that will result in the short term. But get ready, because it's all going to happen faster than you can say AU / SHT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookatthisguy Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 @ David, are we playing the same game? Sounds to me like that's Cubase Holdem table rules. But OK, it's your house (even though you ARE late to the game) so I'll withdraw my bet and instead I'll raise 4 input channel strips and an alias assigner. And now, more rumors from the mill... (ruari -- take note!) Logic X will only be available as a download, and that includes all jam pack content, demo content, etc. Even with a high speed internet connection, estimates are that it will take 5 hours on average to download, though it should take significantly less time in those countries with more advanced internet infrastructure (by definition, this excludes the United States). Logic X will be somewhat transitional in the sense that the Audio Unit (AU) format is going to be slowly deprecated (a computer programming term meaning "phased out") and replaced with a new format called "sonic hyper threading" (SHT). This exciting -- if not groundbreaking software technology -- promises to vastly increase audio processing time through plugins. The upside: a significant decrease in thruput latencies, meaning that common complaints such as "why does my guitar sound late when monitoring through Logic" will become a thing of the past. The downside: the growing pains and inevitable plugin incompatibilities that will result in the short term. But get ready, because it's all going to happen faster than you can say AU / SHT! http://bit.ly/EGT3s (Sadly, at the day job I can't just find a YouTube file to embed.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shivermetimbers Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 (Sadly, at the day job I can't just find a YouTube file to embed.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shivermetimbers Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 "...The next Logic release will be a big test of Apple's commitment to its pro markets." http://blogs.computerworld.com/18922/adobe_brings_flash_free_flash_to_apple_ipad_iphone?source=rss_blogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookatthisguy Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 (Sadly, at the day job I can't just find a YouTube file to embed.) Thank you kindly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 @ David, are we playing the same game? Sounds to me like that's Cubase Holdem table rules. But OK, it's your house ...REALLY??? And all this time I thought it was YOUR house! I need to stop peeing on the lawn!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 @ David, are we playing the same game? Sounds to me like that's Cubase Holdem table rules. But OK, it's your house ...REALLY??? And all this time I thought it was YOUR house! I need to stop peeing on the lawn!! Damn! Well, that's a mystery cleared up, cuz I've been puzzling over why we've been getting these isolated brown patches on the grass. And clusters of mushrooms too. I mean, those are mushrooms, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shivermetimbers Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Judging from the convo you two are having, the mushrooms must be from the magical variety. Oh my .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Damn! Well, that's a mystery cleared up, cuz I've been puzzling over why we've been getting these isolated brown patches on the grass. You know what they say... "The other man's grass is always browner..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 And now we know why. Funny, for the past few weeks I've been hearing what sounded like running water, late at night, but I chalked it up to the neighbor's sprinkler system going off. Ah yes, living in the burbs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evanbrass Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Logic X will be somewhat transitional in the sense that the Audio Unit (AU) format is going to be slowly deprecated (a computer programming term meaning "phased out") and replaced with a new format called "sonic hyper threading" (SHT). This exciting -- if not groundbreaking software technology -- promises to vastly increase audio processing time through plugins. The upside: a significant decrease in thruput latencies, meaning that common complaints such as "why does my guitar sound late when monitoring through Logic" will become a thing of the past. The downside: the growing pains and inevitable plugin incompatibilities that will result in the short term. But get ready, because it's all going to happen faster than you can say AU / SHT! First I'm hearing of this- is this really a rumor? or did you must make it up on the spot? sounds cool! - Also, AU /SHT- had me laughing for a minute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el-bo Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 i reckon there are at least 2 people in this thread that know, but are contractually bound not to divulge, the truth as far as X is concerned edit : the thread is 3 pages long, i'll up the ante to 4 members who are quietly chuckling behind the scenes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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