volothamp Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Probably the main problem with Logic X is that it will be delivered using the App Store, so goodbye upgrade license and discounts. The good thing about that is that we may have a great price drop as an example Final Cut Pro X: 1000$ -> 300$ Logic Pro: 499$ -> 149$ Plus, probably it won't have all the plugins in it, they may be bought externally (like Garageband). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankieDOS Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 The only real rumors is.. I've to upgrade my Apple Certificate! David are you the master of those mindtwisting test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 David are you the master of those mindtwisting test? No, I am not the test author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankieDOS Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Anyway, i hope Apple listened to our new features suggestions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Probably the main problem with Logic X is that it will be delivered using the App Store, so goodbye upgrade license and discounts. The main problem with Logic X is that it isn't even available. But let's not let a minor detail like that get in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 The main problem with Logic X is that it isn't even available. But let's not let a minor detail like that get in the way. Indeed. We need to start complaining about the unfixed bugs and missing features right away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Ha! I already have it. Alas, it's identical to 9... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volothamp Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Indeed. We need to start complaining about the unfixed bugs and missing features right away... I'm not complaining about missing feature, just making assumption based on the commercial evolution of similar Apple's professional products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twister Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Probably the main problem with Logic X is that it will be delivered using the App Store, so goodbye upgrade license and discounts. There's no way buying upgrades from the App store? Why's that? The good thing about that is that we may have a great price drop as an example Final Cut Pro X: 1000$ -> 300$ Logic Pro: 499$ -> 149$ Plus, probably it won't have all the plugins in it, they may be bought externally (like Garageband). You buy Logic from the App store and plugins from somewhere else? Potentially having to order DVD's via mail because the sample libraries are too big for reliable transfer over the internet? The built-in instruments and effects are highly appreciated in the Logic users community and I have never heard anyone to complain about having to pay for plug-ins they don't want to use. Though I do believe there are users who think that, but not too many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 You buy Logic from the App store and plugins from somewhere else? I bet (all in) that that won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 There's no way buying upgrades from the App store? Why's that? It's not that - the App Store provides a mechanism for small free updates, but in general, Apple are moving to a product roadmap that basically means there is no more upgrade pricing. Product X costs $XX for everybody, regardless of whether they owned a previous version of that software. So, following that strategy, as a Logic 9 owner, I won't be buying an "upgrade" from LP9 to LPX, which would be cheaper than buying LPX outright, as happened in the past - I'd be buying LPX, and paying the same price as someone who's buying Logic for the first time. That's what "no more upgrade pricing" means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volothamp Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 So, following that strategy, as a Logic 9 owner, I won't be buying an "upgrade" from LP9 to LPX, which would be cheaper than buying LPX outright, as happened in the past - I'd be buying LPX, and paying the same price as someone who's buying Logic for the first time. That's what "no more upgrade pricing" means. Exactly. As for the plugins, the Apple's one will be sold from the Apple Store (like Apple did with Compressor), the other one will be sold from the vendors, as always. Potentially having to order DVD's via mail because the sample libraries are too big for reliable transfer over the internet? Digital delivery is future, whether you like it or not. Can't see what is the analogy between the DD of Logic and the selling of sample libraries. It's just an hypothesis, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Indeed. We need to start complaining about the unfixed bugs and missing features right away... I've just sent in a bug report in which I complained that every feature of Logic X is missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redlogic Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I've just sent in a bug report in which I complained that every feature of Logic X is missing. Sh!t! Mine won't even install! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I've just sent in a bug report in which I complained that every feature of Logic X is missing. Sh!t! Mine won't even install! Thank you redlogic for writing to Apple™. We're sorry that you're having trouble installing your new software Logic Pro X. Please read the following troubleshooting steps and other important information: 1) Is your computer connected to the Internet? If it is not then you will not be able to install Logic Pro X or any Apple™ software now or in the future. For informational purposes only, we wish to inform you that Apple™ has purchased all worldwide manufacturers of disc media (CD and DVD blanks) and sold off their assets as scrap, thus requiring that Apple™ customers maintain a working Internet connection to purchase and install Apple™ software products. 2) If your computer is connected to the Internet but your connection is intermittent, consider switching to a different ISP to establish a more reliable and consistent connection. 3) Should you experience difficulties operating your software after installing it, please do not use the Internet to contact customer service, as this will reduce the bandwidth available to other customers who are in the process of downloading their Apple™ software purchases. Please note that the above is entirely fictitious, but needs to be stated as such explicitly because some people believe everything they read on the Internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redlogic Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 3) Should you experience difficulties operating your software after installing it, please do not use the Internet to contact customer service, as this will reduce the bandwidth available to other customers who are in the process of downloading their Apple™ software purchases. Damn it ski!!! Maniacal laughter just crossfaded into an epileptic seizure. Now my studio is a total wreck. ...and I peed on myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Sorry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volothamp Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 1) Is your computer connected to the Internet? If it is not then you will not be able to install Logic Pro X or any Apple™ software now or in the future Please note that the above is entirely fictitious, but needs to be stated as such explicitly because some people believe everything they read on the Internet. Hello? Where have you been in the last 6 months? Do you know that there is a new OS by Apple, it's called Lion, and it has exactly the same characteristics you are mocking on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Right, I forgot to remember that Lion prevents users from installing apps from the CD/DVD drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgman Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 So do you think we'll see the new iOS released before Logic X? No, I think we will see Logic X before we see IOS 6.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evanbrass Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 c'monnnnn Logic X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 No concern of the environment disappearing. Logic has already been kinda rebuilt, it isn't the same situation as FCPX. At most perhaps it will be a bit more hidden, perhaps an "Advanced" button hat opens it. Removing it doesn't make any sense, nor does a complete redesign ala FCPX in the case of Logic. What I wouldn't be surprised to see is some type of implementation for a quick trying out of rearrangements like (Ableton) Live has, although done very differently They won't win over the long term heavy live audio recording Pro Tools folks too easy (although im not suggesting Logic can't do the job of course), but trying to pull in some of the younger crowd who are highly (% wise) going to Live is another matter. Two modes, Simplified and Complex and and easy switch between the two. Simplified like a mash of elements from Live and FL for quick composition and rearrangement. Complex for a more traditional Logic approach. Both intimately linked to each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hint Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I'm starting to think that perhaps a fresh start with Logic X wouldn't be such a bad thing after all. Seeing the way things have panned out with L9, with new bugs being introduced, then bugfixes appearing which fix some things but introduce new (superficially) unrelated bugs etc... it gives the impression that Logic as it stands is in a bit of a mess under the hood. I'm not a programmer though. The alternative explanation is that they're just not very good at their jobs, which I don't think is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlowerPower Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Seeing the way things have panned out with L9, with new bugs being introduced, then bugfixes appearing which fix some things but introduce new (superficially) unrelated bugs etc... it gives the impression that Logic as it stands is in a bit of a mess under the hood. Which new bugs are you seing? My feeling is that the ratio between fixed bugs an newly introduced bugs must be something like 1:100 or more.... Rudy, I like your idea about an Advanced mode. Re. the need for rewrite or not... I wouldn't know. Maybe some stuff we think is easy to implement - for instance, maybe they need to do a lot of stuff under the hood to allow Post Pan sends to be usable with both the other (pre/post fader) modes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hint Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Which new bugs are you seing? My feeling is that the ratio between fixed bugs an newly introduced bugs must be something like 1:100 or more.... The bugs I am most affected by are mainly instrument-based, so they are the ones that I can talk about... Odd little things like the LFO sync issue in ES2 that have appeared over the course of 9's life. The EXS one-shot bug. Ultrabeat bugs. Yes, they are mostly fixed in subsequent updates, but can anyone explain how something like the ES2 sync bug can even appear in the first place? We'll leave aside how such bugs get past internal testing for the time being These instruments haven't changed (as far as features / use / GUIs are concerned) for a long time, so there doesn't seem to be a real reason for them to suddenly "break" the way they have. So that's what leads me to speculate in the above post. What happened between 9.1.3 and 9.1.4 to break an LFO sync? It's not like 9.1.4 introduced a newly overhauled ES2. ES2 was not even mentioned in the release notes, so there's no suggestion that it had been worked on for 9.1.4. Another example: Preview sample in Ultrabeat. They broke it in one of the Logic 8 updates, but fixed it, then 9.0.0 broke it again for me and it hasn't worked since. Yet the instrument hasn't changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlowerPower Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 The bugs I am most affected by are mainly instrument-based, so they are the ones that I can talk about... Except that the Preview Sample behavior has changed (intentional or not?), I don't think I have heard about other unwanted changes in the last version. But when the under-the-hood code is altered for one reason or the other (eg CPU-optimization, getting rid of old code, compatibilty with newer versions of the OS etc), I wouldn't be surprised if working features could get hiccups. ES2 was not even mentioned in the release notes, so there's no suggestion that it had been worked on for 9.1.4. I don't think any company announces details about all their bugfixes/optimizations... You mention 'mess under the hood', but my feeling is that there's less mess under the Logic-hood then it ever has been, and that those who want fixes and optimizations instead of new features generally are very happy these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I don't think any company announces details about all their bugfixes/optimizations... I disagree. Each company sets their own standards regarding what kinds of bugfixes and improvements are made in a new rev, and some publish more than others. It's only been in the last (maybe) 2 years that Apple has started to crack open the door of communication a tad and publish fairly extensive bug-fix listings; and for as grateful as I am for that, IMO they still have a very long way to go. ====== Advanced mode... Hey, we're running Logic, not Logic Express, right? So why would anyone need an "advanced mode" in Logic Pro? Any kind of "advanced mode" would represent a true dumbing down of what is a professional grade program and if you think Logic is too advanced for you, you have choices... Buy Logic Express and get your feet wet with that for a while. By running Express you won't be losing out on how to run Logic Pro except that some features aren't available. Oh, you need those features, even though you're a beginner? Well, ta da, you have a learning curve ahead of you on Logic Pro, but hey, that's only natural, something to be expected. No one comes out of the womb (relatively speaking) with an inherent understanding of everything from how to write good music to mastering their tracks. It all takes time. Lots of time. But to help with learning all of that stuff, there are books and classes you can take (David's comes immediately to mind), videos, etc. I also think that the notion of dumbing down a program like Logic would represent a HUGE insult to the intelligence of every present and future customer who wants to buy it, let alone a slap in the face to professionals (some of whom have been on the platform for 10, 15, 20 years). Lemme ask... are any one of you really too stupid to fathom Logic as it exists now? The answer is very simple: no, you're not. If anything, your only disadvantage might be that you haven't had enough experience producing music yet to understand how to use all of its features. So naturally, the features that pros use on a daily basis might be considered "advanced" by people with less experience. Still, does Apple need to dumb it down for you and point out to you what's "advanced" and what's not in Logic Pro? Apparently they haven't thought so in the past, so why should they in the future? Besides, aren't the really "advanced" features of Logic already kind of hidden away? Think: pan law stuff, chasing prefs, flex parameters, etc. Füd for thought... Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hint Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Except that the Preview Sample behavior has changed (intentional or not?), I don't think I have heard about other unwanted changes in the last version. Like I say, it's been broken for me (and others) since 9.0.0. Try and use it according to the feature description in the manual if you're curious about how it's supposed to work. Seems with 9.1.6 it broke for other people too for some reason, even though the Software Update bullet points (but not the release notes) claimed it was fixed. But I'm not really talking about just the latest version here - more an overall pattern I've observed over the life of 9. Remember it's taken over 2 years to get to this point! Yes, there have been plenty of fixes, but it hasn't been a smooth and steady process of refinement. It's been a curious game of give and take. Speaking from my own perspective only, of course. My personal list of frustrating bugs is probably irrelevant to some guy who just records trad rock bands, for example. On a more positive note, they've changed the Ultrabeat voice pitch reset when canceling a sample replacement, for which I am extremely grateful (it's bothered me almost every day for over 2 years). I'm not saying it's a horrible buggy piece of software... I'm just wondering if perhaps a new beginning for the Logic team might be good for everyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 +1 to Ski's post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evanbrass Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 maybe instead of basic/advanced maybe he's talking about simple/complex. That's kind of how I work with Logic anyway. I rarely deal with the environment window, unless I need to create an arpeggiator or something. Most of the time the environment is out of my way, but I know it's there if I need it. However, I don't think that logic should go that route. I think they DO need to simplify some processes while keeping the power of the program. For example. I think one of the greatest things they implemented in logic was the ability to right click almost anyway and bring up a pop up menu. it's a simple and quick way to access more parameters, etc. or, another example - setting up an arpeggiator on an instrument track, right now what I do is go into the environment, set up the arpeggiator, run cables to it into my instrument track, and then right click it so that I can create the arpeggiator track in the arrange page...- what about if instead I could just go to a menu in the arrange page, and select the arpeggiator, and drag it onto my instrument track - done. Stuff like that would improve my workflow, and stifle my creativity. Logic can do almost anything - it's just a matter of making things take less steps to improve workflow. for example, why do I need to go into a "sample editor" window? How can they make audio editing easier for us, but still powerful. Or another thing - I know Presonus Studio One implemented melodyne into their tracks, and we've been asking for that for years in logic. But I don't want how they have it in Studio One, I want it to be even easier in logic. I like Logic's Pitch correction plugin, it just lacks a graphical interface. but you know how there is an "automation view" and "flex view" they could just have a "Pitch view" where you could see the notes, and quickly edit them. To me that would be simpler, and easier than anything to date. And same thing like simplifying ways to drag tracks around and color them (why the hell isn't there an option to make region colors in a track change to the same color when you select a color of a channel strip in the mixer?) just doing that would lessen mouse clicks for me! another thing that would be amazing would be the ability to freeze multi out instrument tracks:) At the same time they could take ultrabeat - improve it's power and make it easier to use. for example improving power by being able to have multiple layers per voice. and making it easier for us to mangle samples within it. simple mouse manipulation - dragging start and end points, drawing envelopes, etc. Being able to set up your own plugin folders would not affect the power of logic, but would make workflow so much better. Anyway, point of my post is that there are ways to make logic more powerful and flexible, but also simplifying it to make it easier to use. I hope that they are doing this with Logic 10. If so I will be a happy happy boy boy (that's a very bad Ren and Stimpy pun) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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