Huge volume jump on loop's first beat (not quite solved)

[uncleAlbert]

Hello, I'm new here so apologies if this has been posted recently. I did come across the thread below but the issue I'm experiencing is slightly different:

 

Huge Volume jump on Loop's First Beat [sOLVED]

 

I've got a simple 8 bar arrangement consisting of five EXS24 tracks: 2 kicks, 1 snare, 1 for hats and the other contains a few bass notes, none of which fall in the same place as the kicks. One kick has a low cut of 140hz and a high cut of 6300hz, the other has a low cut of 40hz and a high cut of 140hz. All tracks have sensible EQ and compression inserts. The output channel of this loop peaks at -0.1db and there is no limiter on the master output.

 

The output peaks at -0.1db when I play the loop but if I hit the space bar mid playback, the output jumps to +1.5 as soon as the first beat plays. This value of +1.5db is inconsistent - sometimes it can be +0.2 or +0.7. The same thing occurs when I move the playhead to a point of silence before the midi regions or change the cycle length. Whatever the case the signal increases as soon as the first beat plays, until I reset the Output monitor and allow the loop to cycle. After that it goes back to normal.

 

I'm not sure if it's anything to do with how I mix my tracks. I always mix everything at around -20 until I'm satisfied with the overall mix and then I put a Gain insert on my master Output channel to get it as close to 0db as possible. All regions are exact clones of one another and I have checked for hidden notes so it can't be that.

 

I'm running Logic Pro 9 with no third party plugins but I also noticed this problem when I used to run Cubase SX3 and Battery so it's not a Logic-specific issue. I'm certain this is a midi issue because it never happens when I loop audio regions.

 

Hope that's enough to go on. Thanks in advance.

[triplets]

What compression insert are you using? And what are your settings on it?

[camillo jr]

The "loud first beat syndrome" has been reported several times over the years. Try this.

 

Oops! I've linked to the same thread as the OP.

 

Dunno!

[uncleAlbert]

I'm using the standard Compressor plugin that comes with Logic and the settings below:

 

Low kick

 

Attack: 26ms

Release: 8ms

Ratio: 2.0:1

Gain Reduction: -6db

 

High kick

 

Same as above except 0ms attack.

 

Both kicks are routed to a bus which has another compressor and the same settings as the low kick but with -3db gain reduction. All compressors have the Knee set to 1.0 and the Peak box checked.

 

Thanks

[triplets]

I see, you have a slow attack on the the low kick, fast release and only 2:1, so the compressor is not doing a lot.

 

0 ms on the high kick? The logic compressor is not very clean on very fast attacks. Maybe 2-5 ms would be better.

Try changing the type of circuit to VCA.

 

Do you still have the peaks if you bypass the low kick? That sample might be part of it if you're not controlling the low frequencies.

[uncleAlbert]

One thing I didn't mention is that the two kicks are different samples. I took one kick because I liked the sound at the top end and the other because I liked the sound at the low end. After inserting a high cut, low cut and compressor on each kick, as described earlier, I mixed the volumes of the kicks together until I liked the sound of it and the routed both kicks to a bus so that I could control the whole kick in the mix.

 

The low kick boosts everything by 10db. When I look at the spectrum analyser on the Channel EQ plugin, and try to level it at 0db by turning the gain down on the low kick, it gets lost in the mix and all I can hear is the percussion, snares and the high kick. Same with the bassline - if I turn down everything below 200hz I can only just hear it.

 

I have done what you described on the compressors but I'm starting to think I need to get my understanding of EQ down before I start messing with compression!

[camillo jr]

It's nice to have control of the two kick elements but mostly what you want is to get the kick sound that you like and then use the whole aux level to place that in the mix. In other words, maybe the low kick sound is OK at 10 db louder than the high kick sound - you can only use your ears to judge that.

 

Could it be that your monitors aren't revealing the bass in a realistic way? Try listening on headphones - they do give a distorted picture of the mix but can reveal details in both the high end and the bottom that you might not notice on the mains.

[uncleAlbert]

It actually sounds fine but I was always under the impression that your overall mix shouldn't have any frequencies too much higher than others.

 

Thanks for your help though.

[tsunchoo]

you don't have two notes on top of one another in the piano roll?

[uncleAlbert]

I double checked and it's not that.

 

Setting the cycle pre-processing to 1/192, as per the thread I linked to above, greatly reduces the problem but doesn't solve it.