When you layer vocals what NEEDS to be done?

[clintoncole]

To make it sound better what do you do when you layer/stack vocals? For the sound like I have here http://soundcloud.com/clintoncole/talk-is-cheap ,, but it just sounds a bit off to me like something needs to be done but I don't know what.

 

edit: here's the perfect trick i was looking for

 

he hit it right on for what i had in mind.

Edited November 4, 2011 by clintoncole

[Holger Lagerfeldt]

Make sure the recordings are tight. You can VocAlign, Flex Time or chop later, but the easiest is to simply record a new and better dub. That'll give you tight vocals that fit together. Make sure you're familiar with Logic's Quick Swipe functions as this will ease the process.

 

Also make sure your recordings are in pitch, which they're not in your recording. Use Auto-Tune or another type of pitch correction if you still can't hit the right pitch, but for a natural sound the effect should not be very noticeable.

 

I often equalize a little more low end out of the dubs and voices, especially lower voices. This helps avoid low end and low midrange build-up and emphasizes the mids and highs slightly.

 

I also de-ess stacks much more or even remove sibilants and hard consonants completely. De-essing is important in order to avoid build-up of sibilance in close mic'ed vocals. Logic's de-esser pretty much sucks, but you can use this trick instead: http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=39794

 

I compress my lead vocal quite a bit, but the dubs or voices even more. Compressing the dubs a lot will help them glue better with the lead. I also sum compress the stacks or re-compress with the lead in the sum. This helps keep everything in check for a very steady vocal sound.

 

While this can sound like a lot of compression it's not necessarily problematic. Using lower ratios and fast attack with serial compressors help smooth things out.

 

I often hard pan dubs and voices, but you can pack them toward the center image for a more focused sound. This depends on what's going on in the mix and whether your dubs are very tight. The further you pan out, the more audible any timing differences will be. There are no rules for how many dubs you should use, but personally I've never used more than 6 per voice. One of my vocal producers use up to 12 per voice in the chorus, where 4 are regular dubs, 4 are shouts and 4 are very airy. You can hear that type of sound on the last chorus of Britney's Oops I Did It Again, though that's Nana Hedin and The Fanchoir (four of Max Martin's regular backing singers) on top.

 

Don't be afraid to equalize your reverb return if you feel there's a build-up in a particular frequency area. I often de-ess the input of the reverb aux in order to avoid sibilant explosions in the reverb.

Edited October 25, 2011 by lagerfeldt

[clintoncole]

Im using my ears and it sounds in pitch to me,, how do you know its not? (you're probably right) And the recordings are tight,, they sound tight to you right? it just gives me a headache every time i listen to it,, something needs to be done and I don't know what... and its not the pitch i know that.. any ideas? it sounds good to me but something in it is giving me a headache >>... lol does that sound dumb?

 

Make sure the recordings are tight. You can VocAlign, Flex Time or chop later, but the easiest is to simply record a new and better dub. That'll give you tight vocals that fit together. Make sure you're familiar with Logic's Quick Swipe functions as this will ease the process.

 

Also make sure your recordings are in pitch, which they're not in your recording. Use Auto-Tune or another type of pitch correction if you still can't hit the right pitch, but for a natural sound the effect should not be very noticeable.

 

I often equalize a little more low end out of the dubs and voices, especially lower voices. This helps avoid low end and low midrange build-up and emphasizes the mids and highs slightly.

 

I also de-ess stacks much more or even remove sibilants and hard consonants completely. De-essing is important in order to avoid build-up of sibilance in close mic'ed vocals. Logic's de-esser pretty much sucks, but you can use this trick instead: http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=39794

 

I compress my lead vocal quite a bit, but the dubs or voices even more. Compressing the dubs a lot will help them glue better with the lead. I also sum compress the stacks or re-compress with the lead in the sum. This helps keep everything in check for a very steady vocal sound.

 

While this can sound like a lot of compression it's not necessarily problematic. Using lower ratios and fast attack with serial compressors help smooth things out.

 

I often hard pan dubs and voices, but you can pack them toward the center image for a more focused sound. This depends on what's going on in the mix and whether your dubs are very tight. The further you pan out, the more audible any timing differences will be. There are no rules for how many dubs you should use, but personally I've never used more than 6 per voice. One of my vocal producers use up to 12 per voice in the chorus, where 4 are regular dubs, 4 are shouts and 4 are very airy. You can hear that type of sound on the last chorus of Britney's Oops I Did It Again, though that's Nana Hedin and The Fanchoir on top.

 

Don't be afraid to equalize your reverb return if you feel there's a build-up in a particular frequency area. I often de-ess the input of the reverb aux in order to avoid sibilant explosions in the reverb.

[Holger Lagerfeldt]

Im using my ears and it sounds in pitch to me,, how do you know its not? (you're probably right)

Years of experience.

 

And the recordings are tight,, they sound tight to you right?

Not quite.

 

it just gives me a headache every time i listen to it,,

Pitch correction and better equalizing would help.

 

something needs to be done and I don't know what... and its not the pitch i know that.. any ideas? it sounds good to me but something in it is giving me a headache >>... lol does that sound dumb?

Try reading and following my advice, that's the best advice I can give you The techniques involved take years of practice and there's no magic bullet. Good luck.

[clintoncole]

Thank you for your advice I'll try it

[David Nahmani]

Many pitch correction plug-ins, such as the one included in Logic, will show you how far your vocals are from the correct pitch, on the correction meter. Use that to see how far off your are. Use the pitch correction to listen to your perfectly tuned vocals, to grasp what your vocals would sound like if they were in tune. Then sing again, trying to emulate the pitch of the autotuned vocals. This will do WONDERS for your pitch perception, and to learn to sing in key.

 

The vocals rhythms are pretty good but there's a place or two where they could be tighter. For example "Cheap" @ 1:05, "At" @ 1:41, etc...

 

Overall it's pretty good, I would focus on the pitch first, that's what needs the most work on that track.

[clintoncole]

Thank you hope your doing great still! Im planning on moving back there sometime next year!

[clintoncole]

I went to melodyne, and went to "Edit : Correct Pitch" that will fix it right? And then I added pitch correction (logics preset) I can't hear the difference to be honest except on one or two parts but yea. I'll upload it as soon as I finish chopping the vocals into place.. (will be done sometime tomorrow night)

[clintoncole]

New version, please let me know if I fixed the problems you guys heard

http://soundcloud.com/clintoncole/talk-is-cheap-1

[ROYALEFATALE]

To make it sound better what do you do when you layer/stack vocals?

 

personally i like to use reverse reverb under the main track for choruses, etc.

[clintoncole]

Spent another good day or so researching and tweaking let me know please .

 

http://soundcloud.com/clintoncole/talk-is-cheap-11-3-11-draft

 

I'm officially out of ideas for this track, and it's standing as nice and big as I can make it.

[JetLab]

Ah, the sometimes oh so frustrating art of not too much but not enough.

 

It's definitely improving.