tigermaster Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Hi, i have problems with the midi keyboard i use as master keyboard. Basically it gives a different midi message for note off events, compared to other keyboards i have in my studio. Looking at midi monitor, my keyboard gives an OFF message when i release the key (i believe is a velocity 0 note trig). While if i try with other keyboards i get a different message, instead of off there's the same value of velocity that i have pressed before, but the note icon is slashed. everything has been fine till today, but now i am usign an ipad as a synthesizer and i'm using a coremidi connection with wi-fi. Most of the synthesizers i have doesn't accept that kind of note off command, and i get a sustained note instead. Maybe i'm wrong but i remember on older logic versions that there was an option to manage note-off behaviour in order to choose wich one to use, i am unable to find that now, i've tried using also a transformer with no luck. any clue please ? Another issue i have with coremidi is that if i stop playing for more than a couple of seconds, then the first note i play isn't received by the ipad, or is played later, with a delay, all the following notes are played with almost 0 latency. Does anyone has already tried working with an ipad? i'm thinking about getting a physical midi connection using line6 midi mobilizer2 or ikmultimedia iRigMidi. Does those devices solves that issue maybe? Or maybe is because i'm still on 10.5.8? Does anyone with 10.6.x has this issue? And those devices are compatible with any coremidi compatible app in ipad or they must be made compatible by developers? I mean, if i can connect my device using wi-fi connection am i able to use those intefaces aswell? Just to make an example, moog's animoog or camel audio's Alchemy automatically creates a connection on my network session when i open the applications, so midi on the above devices will work instantly aswell ? cause on some applications there is a specific option for midi mobilizer, but i think is referred to midi mobilizer1,that was not coremidi compliant. I want to add also that this kind of problem is not present on all applications, i have it in Animoog and Alchemy but for example on Yamaha's TNR-ON everything is working perfect. it looks like there are 2 kinds of coremidi support used by developers, the one used by yamaha is perfect, it does not have this problem and it recognize correctly the note off event of my keyboard aswell, while the other one it looks buggy, it doesn't accept note off and has the problem i've discussed above. thanks for any input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxy Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 you ever get an answer? I would like to use animoog or alchemy to record straight to logic pro.. preferably using the IPad / USB chord any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Hi, i have problems with the midi keyboard i use as master keyboard.Basically it gives a different midi message for note off events, compared to other keyboards i have in my studio. Keyboard manufacturers have the option of providing one of three types of Note Off messages: 1• Note On with a velocity of zero (a perfectly valid type of note-off message, and probably the most common) 2• Note Off with a fixed velocity (in this case, it's actually called 'release velocity') with a fixed value of 64. Implied in this fixed value is that the keyboard doesn't sense release velocity -- the speed with which you release the keys. The value of 64 is considered "neutral". 3• Note Off with variable release velocity. If the values vary it's because the keyboard is capable of sensing the speed of key releases, but it's up to the MIDI destination (plugin or hardware) as to whether or not the release velocity values have any influence on the sound. The latter two kinds of messages are what I refer to as "true" Note Off messages, though that isn't to suggest that there's anything wrong with the Note On/Velocity Zero type. They're all perfectly valid, and have been part of the MIDI spec for 30 years. Theoretically, developers of hardware and software instruments are supposed to program them to successfully handle any of the three types of messages. In other words, all three types of Note Off messages should have the same effect, signaling the instrument to turn off that note (or voice). This should be the case even if an instrument doesn't respond to release velocity. If an instrument can't handle all three types of messages then to me it represents a serious design flaw. Looking at midi monitor, my keyboard gives an OFF message when i release the key (i believe is a velocity 0 note trig).While if i try with other keyboards i get a different message, instead of off there's the same value of velocity that i have pressed before, but the note icon is slashed. The above explains this. everything has been fine till today, but now i am usign an ipad as a synthesizer and i'm using a coremidi connection with wi-fi.Most of the synthesizers i have doesn't accept that kind of note off command, and i get a sustained note instead. In order to troubleshoot any of this (and to suggest workarounds, if possible) it would really help to know which plugins AND which keyboards you're talking about. Maybe i'm wrong but i remember on older logic versions that there was an option to manage note-off behaviour in order to choose wich one to use, i am unable to find that now, i've tried using also a transformer with no luck. Been working with Logic since version 2 or 3 and there's never been such a feature. With respect to using Transformers, however, you might be interested to read my Note Off handling tutorials posted here on LPH (link below). The content doesn't directly address your situation, but you may find some useful information in it nevertheless. Keep in mind that at the time I wrote them I was using a keyboard controller that outputted Note Off messages in the form of Note On/Velocity Zero. But the other types of Note Off messages are also mentioned and discussed in the thread. Here's the link: Ski's Note Off Handling Tutorials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigermaster Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 you ever get an answer?I would like to use animoog or alchemy to record straight to logic pro.. preferably using the IPad / USB chord any ideas? Animoog has been updated and now is working fine with every kind of note off message, haven't tryed alchemy again yet, nor any other synth i've purchased. About the delay it was a wi-fi problem, don't know why exactly, my wi-fi was 30cm far from the ipad and i was using it only for this matter (i have another wi-fi on another channel for internet connections), btw still it had issues, i haven't tried again with IOS5 but i've purchased ik multimedia Irig midi so i use a direct midi cable now and i have no issues anymore i'm using only TNR-ON and Animoog at the moment and both are working perfectly, best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigermaster Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Hi, i have problems with the midi keyboard i use as master keyboard.Basically it gives a different midi message for note off events, compared to other keyboards i have in my studio. Keyboard manufacturers have the option of providing one of three types of Note Off messages: so the icon with a slashed note wich kind of note off message is ? just to make a couple of example i have a roland @juno2 and a couple of old Korgs, all gives that slashed icon as note off message, while my master keyboard, that is a relatively new evolution mk something gives velocity OFF as message. I'm planning to purchase a new master keyboard btw, basically because this one lacks aftertouch and i'm interested in poly aftertouch, the way Animoog uses it is great, i'm already imagining what i should do with Reaktor and poly aftertouch None of my keyboards has poly aftertouch, i can reproduce that only with ipad atm. Maybe i can convert some midicc with logic's tranformers, haven't tried... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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