What's the SCORE: Line Breaks Broken

[ski]

Logic 9.1.5

 

This thread is for FlowerPower, Music Spirit, and other score editor users who have posted in the past on the subject of line breaks. I'm not very pleased to report that after comparing notes with Jay Asher, you can't expect good (or even consistent) behavior from use of the line break symbol (the "paragraph mark").

 

SUMMARY: if you're using line break symbols to format your score, they will indeed work initially; but subsequent changes to the number of bars/line using the layout tool will potentially erase all existing line break symbols if you move bars upward from a lower-numbered system.

 

Both of us could swear that line break behavior was better in previous versions of Logic, too. Now... the perceived purpose of line breaks symbols is twofold:

 

• to set and preserve the number of measures per line in any score set, regardless of the value set for "max bars per line" (project settings)

 

• once line breaks are inserted in the score, subsequent changes to the number of bars per line using the layout tool should only affect the # of measures in the immediate vicinity of the change, regardless of which direction you make the change (moving measures up a line or down a line). For example...

 

- if you have a score with 4 systems per page and a bar is dragged up from system #2 to system #1, the number of bars (and the line break symbols) for systems #3 and #4 should remain intact. NOT THE CASE in 9.1.5! Here, all line break symbols disappear after making the change with the layout tool.

 

- behavior IS better is you're dragging bars down from one system to another, but dragging bars up is highly problematic.

[ski]

BTW, we're going to check this behavior later today in previous versions of Logic to see if we've just been fooling ourselves all this time into thinking that the behavior was better in previous revs, or not. I'm going to test this out on both PPC and Intel and see wot tha deal is.

[Ashermusic]

I just tried in in LP8 and with the exact same result as when we did it over the phone.

[ski]

GAH!

 

(That's on Intel, yes?)

[Ashermusic]

GAH!

 

(That's on Intel, yes?)

 

Yes.

[Music Spirit]

Ski and Jay Asher, thanks for your research on this bane of my Logic Scoring life.

 

I recently did a large batch of horn parts for a gig and found FWIW that the easiest way around the line break poor behaviour is to do the following:

 

1 - Separate Logic document for each part ( Ski's long ago idea)

 

2 - Do the line breaks as the very last operation in the score, after the part has been transposed from Concert to say Alto or Tenor or Trumpet Staff Style.

 

3 - Do the line breaks from bar one to the end and do as few changes as possible ( try to avoid going back and changing an earlier Line Break)

 

4 - Save as a Locked Screenset for safe keeping.

 

* * *

 

Logic 9.1.5 is in my experience the least crashing version yet ( on Snow Leopard) - and vastly improved graphic behaviour for the Score Editor ( less glitches and weirdness on my system)

 

Again at the risk of driving everyone nuts with repeating the same request:

 

A) the most time saving Score Editor improvement would be to be able to make an absolutely lockable template of line breaks. So you could simple cut and paste notes in - and use the same template for different horn parts.

 

B) Also that the Line Breaks would remain the same no matter what Staff Style was changed - this is a real setback because selecting a new Staff Style always changes the Line Breaks ( though only recently did I realise that it obviously helps if you ensure that the Spacing settings in the Staff Style parameters are the same for each part - and that a change to these settings would need the Line Breaks to change

 

 

best

 

M S

 

PS I just realised the OP is about the Line Break *symbol* .. which I have never succeeded in using. It kind of does not work... unless I am thick

[Doug Z]

Whether you're using the line break icon or formatting with the layout tool, the results are the same. Basically you can't protect line breaks. All the things you've mentioned are good voodoo - I've never tried using a locked screen set to see if it helps.

[Music Spirit]

The Locked Screenset can be a very useful way of maintaining a template for line breaks for the next part.

 

Here's my working method FWIW...

 

For example let's say I am doing tpt, alto, tenor arrangement.

 

1) Start with a logic document that has all three in Concert in a Score Set and fiddle around till I am satisfied with the notes and articulations, chords, rehearsal letters etc

 

2) Save that document as 'Tpt Part', change the Staff Style to Bb Tpt, and open the individual part. Sort out all the line breaks etc.

 

3) After the part Printed to PDF and looks perfect, I save it as a separate Locked Screen Set.

 

4) Then save the document as "Alto Part" to work on the next instrument.

Having the Tpt part as a Screenset means you can keep referring instantly to the way the previous part looked and remind yourself of the Line Breaks etc while doing the new part.. generally saves time

 

HTH

 

MS

[Doug Z]

Thanks Music Sprit. I've got a horn arrange to start this week. I'll try this when I get to setting up parts.

[Ashermusic]

The Locked Screenset can be a very useful way of maintaining a template for line breaks for the next part.

 

Here's my working method FWIW...

 

For example let's say I am doing tpt, alto, tenor arrangement.

 

1) Start with a logic document that has all three in Concert in a Score Set and fiddle around till I am satisfied with the notes and articulations, chords, rehearsal letters etc

 

2) Save that document as 'Tpt Part', change the Staff Style to Bb Tpt, and open the individual part. Sort out all the line breaks etc.

 

3) After the part Printed to PDF and looks perfect, I save it as a separate Locked Screen Set.

 

4) Then save the document as "Alto Part" to work on the next instrument.

Having the Tpt part as a Screenset means you can keep referring instantly to the way the previous part looked and remind yourself of the Line Breaks etc while doing the new part.. generally saves time

 

HTH

 

MS

 

When you say "document' do you mean you actually save each as a separate project? That means every time you open a previous one you will have to wait for the software instruments to load unless you turn off the audio driver. But perhaps i am not understanding you correctly.

[Doug Z]

Jay - point taken about sample load in time, but in this particular situation MS is talking three instruments. Depending on library and samples used that probably doesn't take too long, as opposed to doing a full orchestra piece. Also, if using EXS instruments, those could be kept in RAM, dependent on settings.

[Music Spirit]

Jay - point taken about sample load in time, but in this particular situation MS is talking three instruments. Depending on library and samples used that probably doesn't take too long, as opposed to doing a full orchestra piece. Also, if using EXS instruments, those could be kept in RAM, dependent on settings.

 

Indeed Doug - to speed up loading time, I mute all the plug ins and EXS instruments and save as a new template document.

 

Then for each individual instrumental part, I just unmute that instrument in its own document ( assuming that you dont need to hear the rest of the instruments when you have finished writing notes and are preparing the parts).

 

Re Jay's question: by 'document' I just mean your standard Logic Song ie what you get when you do 'Save As' - and keep it in the same folder with same plugins and audio files folder.

 

Though that may be a separate Project strictly speaking.

[Ashermusic]

Jay - point taken about sample load in time, but in this particular situation MS is talking three instruments. Depending on library and samples used that probably doesn't take too long, as opposed to doing a full orchestra piece. Also, if using EXS instruments, those could be kept in RAM, dependent on settings.

 

Indeed Doug - to speed up loading time, I mute all the plug ins and EXS instruments and save as a new template document.

 

Then for each individual instrumental part, I just unmute that instrument in its own document ( assuming that you dont need to hear the rest of the instruments when you have finished writing notes and are preparing the parts).

 

Re Jay's question: by 'document' I just mean your standard Logic Song ie what you get when you do 'Save As' - and keep it in the same folder with same plugins and audio files folder.

 

Though that may be a separate Project strictly speaking.[/quote}

 

Hey! Get with the lingo!

[Music Spirit]

Hey! Get with the lingo!

 

LOL ... this is what happens when you dont go college.

 

[note to self]: need to sign up for a refresher Logic training

[FlowerPower]

Logic 9.1.5

 

This thread is for FlowerPower, Music Spirit, and other score editor users who have posted in the past on the subject of line breaks. I'm not very pleased to report that after comparing notes with Jay Asher, you can't expect good (or even consistent) behavior from use of the line break symbol (the "paragraph mark").

 

Sorry, I missed this thread!

 

Are you aware of the following paragraph from the current manual:

 

 

When you move a bar with the Layout tool, all manually edited line breaks in subsequent lines are deleted, and the (automatic) line breaks are recalculated from that line downward. If you want to prevent this behavior, perhaps because you only want to change one detail and keep the other staffs as they were, hold down the Option key while moving the bars with the Layout tool. Line breaks edited in this way only affect the two (directly concerned) staff systems. All other staff systems are unchanged.