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Wobble bass lfo automation tempo sync question.


musicguy7

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This may be somewhat specific to dubstep wobble bass, but I have a rob papen subboombass bass patch loaded into logic, and am automating the filter lfo speed by drawing some patterns. The lfo sync box is checked in subboombass, my questions is by drawing automation for the filter lfo speed in logic, will the lfo sync always be maintained regardless of the automation I draw? Does that make sense?

 

For example if I draw a gradual increasing automation line from a lfo speed of 1/8 to 1/16 for some midi notes, during the playback, will the wobble bass always be in sync to my project tempo during movement along this automation slope?

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Yes, it will always be in sync with your tempo, if you are looking for a gradual automation slope though you're better off using the tempo matching frequency rather than 1/8th or 16th as drawing an automation slope from 1/8 to 1/16 will generally just go 1/8 1/8T 1/16D 1/16. Rather than sloping up.

 

I think that's what you're asking?

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What do you mean by tempo matching frequency? You mean don't use slopes and just vertical 90 degree lines up and down between different rates? I'm working on a track right now and using the wobble bass for the first time! I am trying to change up the LFO wobble rate by drawing automation, and don't want to mess it up! ie. making it sound interesting by changing the rate but always in sync with the beat. Thanks.
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I get you, I thought you were trying to slope the LFO rate up, if you just want to cycle between values like 1/8 and 1/16 notes it will always tempo sync. for best results turn on "snap automation" and set your snap value to beats or bars (or whatever you are snapping to)
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Sorry, didn't u say slopes between different rates will always synch as well?? as long as the lfo sync is activated? i interpretated ur suggestion as it won't sound that natural if i use slopes goin thru a bunch of rates to a more 'favorable' rate?

 

Musically speaking, if slopes don't mess up the syncing, do most dubstep producers use gradual automation slopes between rates or those 90% sudden rate changes? Like what sounds better generally speaking lol...

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musicguy7, you're going to hate that answer, but it's the only good one:

 

1) Who cares what the other producers do, time to do your own thing independently of what others do.

2) Just try, listen, and pick whatever sounds best... to YOU.

 

I'm not an expert at dubstep but I usually hear sudden rate changes, not slow ramping up/down. I've seen dubstep producers use SOOOO many different techniques that I feel like I could write a 400 page book on producing dubstep basses. One technique I've seen quite a lot is to create several tracks that are duplicates of the original bass track, then to set a different rate for each duplicate, and to move notes between the different tracks depending on what rate you want.

 

I've also seen people do this with audio tracks: bounce different bass notes with different rates and use the marquee to crop the ones you want in different sections.

 

That's just a couple of ideas, there are many, many more out there.

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It's up to you, if you want something to slowly ramp up from say 1/4 notes to 1/16 notes you will need to use frequency rather than divisions. Divisions cycle instantaneously between each other (which is what you are probably looking for)

 

I think its good to change things up though and get different 'new' sounds going on which is why I like using frequency rather than divisions.

 

If you do it this way you will have to o some maths though,

Remember that Hertz = the number of cycles per second and that BPM is equivelant to the amount of beats per minute. Find out the frequency that correlates to your BPM (1/4) then double or divide by 2 to get the corresponding divisions 1/16, 1/8 etc.

 

1.00 Hertz = 1/2 note at 120BPM

2.00 Hertz = 1/4 note at 120BPM

4.00 Hertz = 1/8 note at 120BPM

8.00 Hertz = 1/16 note at 120BPM

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It's up to you, if you want something to slowly ramp up from say 1/4 notes to 1/16 notes you will need to use frequency rather than divisions.

 

So even if in Logic, using the filter lfo speed parameter (subboombass) I draw a gradual slope from 1/16T to 1/32T, it's the equivalent of a sudden change? the slope does not result in a gradual ramp up between these 2 rates? To do it using frequencies do I need to select another automation parameter instead of filter lfo speed? I see a "filter frequency" parameter a lil above in the list, dats the one??

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If you have a gradual slope going from 1/16T to 1/32T its going to pass through 1/32D and 1/32 before it gets to 1/32T. So it will be a sudden change between each different division but it won't be a sudden change between 1/16T and 1/32T.

 

I don't use subboombass so I'm not sure what the right settings are but usually the frequency will be somewhere very near the division value.

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Is the bass line fairly simple? I was working with an intern last month on a dubstep tune of hers, and we sliced up the region so each note had its own region. Make the LFO Rate parameter visible in automation. Select each region in turn and use the "Create 2 Nodes at Region Boundary" key command.

 

Now you can easily drag the value for each note to a desired LFO rate. We started with setting them to sync divisions, but it turned out to be much more musical if we just used Frequency and tuned each one by ear. You can get more edge to the track if it's NOT spot on tempo sync. By setting the automation up this way, that was easily done.

 

Here's what it looks like:

lfostep.jpg.b4b4df66607aef3c7e18a393bc20a93b.jpg

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Does it sound more like it has an edge due to using frequency instead of sync alone, or the not-exact frequency numbers you are using? I am going to try the frequency parameter but was going to bust out the music math app to get me some accurate figures, guess that would just result in a similar synced sound?
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I am going to try the frequency parameter but was going to bust out the music math app to get me some accurate figures, guess that would just result in a similar synced sound?

Just do what works best for your song.

 

Also, what are some other automation parameters to make wobble bass sound interesting other than frequency and lfo sync? volume obviously, anything else?

Not being familiar with that particular synth, it's hard to say. But you should look into what other parameters that synth has that can also be modulated with that same LFO.

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Also, what are some other automation parameters to make wobble bass sound interesting other than frequency and lfo sync? volume obviously, anything else?

 

My suggestion would be to check out the logic 9 manual and read up intensely on the ES2 synth. Also, check out 'sflogicninja' on youtube, he has about 3 ES2 tutorials, they're all really great.

 

If you're interested I could do up a few quick wobble patches for you and upload them here.

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Also, what are some other automation parameters to make wobble bass sound interesting other than frequency and lfo sync? volume obviously, anything else?

 

Also, for a few ideas.

 

1. Set the mod wheel to control pitch for all 3 oscillators, you can get some pretty decent sounds. In the router select Pitch123 (or just 1 of them) as the target and then set the modwheel as the source. (move the green triangle to the top or bottom depending if you want to go up or down)

 

You can also get some pretty decent effects by letting your sound evolve over time, experiment with envelopes 1 & 2 with a fairly slow attack to try this out.

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One technique that I use for tempo synchronized automation (like dubstep basslines) like Fader8 showed is as follows. This method doesn't require separating each note into its own region:

1. If it's not already, set Marquee tool as secondary tool (appears when you hold down CMD)

2. Select portion of automation

3. Click on selected region. It will create 2 nodes at each marquee selection boundary. Adjust to taste.

4. Depending on your goals, it can be useful to enable snap automation from the Snap drop down menu (upper right corner of arrange).

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One technique that I use for tempo synchronized automation (like dubstep basslines) like Fader8 showed is as follows. This method doesn't require separating each note into its own region:

1. If it's not already, set Marquee tool as secondary tool (appears when you hold down CMD)

2. Select portion of automation

3. Click on selected region. It will create 2 nodes at each marquee selection boundary. Adjust to taste.

4. Depending on your goals, it can be useful to enable snap automation from the Snap drop down menu (upper right corner of arrange).

 

Do you find that when automating frequency/division changes within logic it can sometimes not catch at the right time? Also, I'm not hugely into dubstep but when you're selecting a waveform for the LFO is there a general one to go for to ensure correct tempo sync'd transitions? I sort of find myself chopping and changing to find something that fits.

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Do you find that when automating frequency/division changes within logic it can sometimes not catch at the right time? Also, I'm not hugely into dubstep but when you're selecting a waveform for the LFO is there a general one to go for to ensure correct tempo sync'd transitions? I sort of find myself chopping and changing to find something that fits.

Are you using a poly LFO? Are your automation prefs set to "Sample Accurate"? Perhaps if you post a little project to demonstrate the problem you're having?

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