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Internet, Audio recording, Firewire and IRQ conflicts?


cheeserandyburg

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I've been reading alot on so called IRQ conflicts and potential audio issues associated with them.

 

 

In addition I've been aware for a long time that disabling bluetooth, and airport on your audio machine is beneficial.

 

So I ask,

 

1) Does this apply to a regular internet connection through an ethernet cable aswell?

 

2) Is there any advantage to having internet (ethernet) disconnected from a persons audio machine while recording? or does it make no difference?

 

And lastly, do you guys disconnect from the internet while recording or using audio applications such as Logic/Garageband/Quicktime while recording on MAC?

 

 

Thanks

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IRQ conflicts are a Windows problem. Practically speaking, they are non-existant on the Mac OS.

 

In addition I've been aware for a long time that disabling bluetooth, and airport on your audio machine is beneficial.

Disabling processes can help with the prioritization of system tasks, but unless you're having a problem you shouldn't need to do anything. Are you having a problem?

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IRQ conflicts are a Windows problem. Practically speaking, they are non-existant on the Mac OS.

 

Well that's good to know!

 

Disabling processes can help with the prioritization of system tasks, but unless you're having a problem you shouldn't need to do anything. Are you having a problem?

 

Well personally I don't use wireless, that's why I specifically mentioned ethernet in this case.

And yes major problem...

 

I was wondering - since the Firewire 800 port and Ethernet port are so closely linked on the Macbook pro, there could be possible reasons to why I experience audio drop outs randomly in everything from Logicpro, Garageband, and even quicktime.

 

But I have no solid proof as to this being the case, since I've achieved audio drop outs without internet connection. (from what I can remember)

 

I had Logic in working order for 4 hours today without any drop outs, (and maybe by pure coincidence), then I connected to the internet, within 1 min - I had a dropout.

 

Perhaps my timing was off, but it would be nice to blame the internet connection for the drop out as I've been dealing with this issue for over 1 year already....

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I doubt that your problem is the internet.

A lot of times it's the driver of the peripheral you're using.

I'm using internet with FW800 interfaces all day long and no probs.

 

It isn't the internet you're right. I checked my records and I've had this happen with and without internet connection.

 

As for drivers, I've tried every driver available from support for my rig and it happens on all of them. So its not the driver either.

 

Its the application not delivering the samples on time to the interface strangely enough. And it happens at very, very random times. 4 hours in Logic nonstop today, and then bam "sound cuts out" comes back in within a split second.

 

I'm out of ideas on what's causing it, I've literally tried everything besides reinstalling the OS. Which also doesn't give me any hope, since I've read people with similar issues on the i7 MBP's have had it unsolved even after a clean reinstall.

 

If i had to use this laptop for live shows it would be a nightmare. Thankfully it just stays at home...

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Does it happen when you record, mix, or on heavy projects?

Did you try changing buffer sizes for I/O and Process?

What does the Logic CPU meter say?

 

CPU never spikes during the issue.

 

Haven't had it happen in Logic recordings that I've noticed. Happens when Logic is playing back, and even just sitting still. Since its so intermittent I'm positive it'll happen sooner or later during a recording.

 

It has occured during a Quicktime recording and therefor corrupted the whole recording.

 

Its happened in all audio apps on the Mac. Logic, garageband, etc ...Its something low level it seems. Which is an important point.

 

Buffer sizes didn't change a thing. 128 is my usual.

 

 

For example I have Logic open now, If I let it sit opened here at the end of the day i'll have an error in console telling me I had a drop out.

 

So the application doesn't have to be doing anything, it almost as if the core audio just "cuts outs" for a brief split second and then returns. Its really strange.

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But it happens when using the Metric Halo, right?

Does it happen with built-in audio too?

 

Hard to say.

 

Since it happened 4+ hours into a Logic session today, it's hard to sit there for 4 hours with using built in audio. The error is only present with the interface, but that's because the interface uses its own built in software to detect anything flawed going on with the audio.

 

The console returns an error which is explained by the staff as "the core audio didn't deliver the samples on time to the interface"

 

To me this would sound like a driver issue, however when disconnected the interface and going to a site as simple as youtube, and playing a video, I hear the same cut out of audio. Which leads me to believe this is OS X related and something is interferring with the audio output.

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Anything else connected to the firewire port?

 

Is Spotlight indexing your recording drive? If it is, try disabling that in Spotlights privacy settings.

 

Nothing else Fader, just the ULN2. BTW..Suppose I could run a test for that. Is there any way to FORCE indexing by command?

 

I don't even have to be recording anything. It happens in Firefox too on videos with audio. Absolutely same outcome.

 

Worst part about it is, I'm the only or one of the few people on google that has experienced this.

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Could be as simple as a bad FW cable or port, I suppose. One more thing.... Did you at any time ever install any M-Audio/Digidesign/Avid core audio drivers on your Mac? Sometimes remnants of these pieces of crap have been known to cause stability problems with other interface drivers.
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Could be as simple as a bad FW cable or port, I suppose. One more thing.... Did you at any time ever install any M-Audio/Digidesign/Avid core audio drivers on your Mac? Sometimes remnants of these pieces of crap have been known to cause stability problems with other interface drivers.

 

Music plays non stop for hours on end without issues, this seems to get "sparked" on recording applications. So I wouldn't think its the firewire cable. Unless the port itself is "resetting" itself.. which is something I've never heard of..

In addition I've run the apple hardware test, came back perfectly fine.. and ram aswell.

 

 

Never dealt with M-Audio/digi/ or avid for that matter.

 

However, I did at one point have the Wave's silver bundle installed that was giving me issues with AU validation. And I have heard on a forum someone speculating about them doing something to core audio. But this is just what i heard... :roll:

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I removed my interface from the MacbookPro (runs Snow Leopard OS) and hooked it up to my 24" iMac (runs OS X Leopard), opened up Garageband and left it over night, so far no errors to confirm any drop outs. I also played and made a tune for fun in Garageband while on the iMac, and didn't have any issues. But its too early to tell.

 

In addition, I removed the so called "DVCHDPROAudio.plugin" from my MacbookPro, since googling it, results in many complaints for audio and video users. Can't say it'll help but worth a try.

 

However... during my time on my imac I left my Macbook Pro on with Logic Pro running on a fresh project (one audio track) and left the input monitoring ingaged.

 

I came back to see this in console:

 

Logic Pro[159] 11-11-17 6:19:22 AM Audio engine overloaded, resetting

 

Would errors like that one I have just posted result in audio "stopping" or more so of a "Drop out" for a split second? I've never seen this error with my interface connected. Only realized it after my interface was disconnected..

 

Hard to believe the "audio engine was overloaded" from one audio track on a fresh project just sitting there!

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Left Garageband on as a test for the whole night/day.

 

Checked the iMAC console when I got in, same dropout errors.

 

Two times in a less then 12hr period.

 

This concludes it happens on MacbookPro running Snow Leopard 10.6.7 and on a late 2008 24" iMac running Leopard 10.5.8

 

In addition found this in the iMac console:

 

17/11/11 10:46:52 AM [0x0-0x8c08c].com.apple.garageband[875] destbuffer: 816744292

 

 

I give up on audio production

:cry:

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Clean install always fixes problems 8)

 

+1

 

Also.. I believe it's a good idea after a clean install including Logic... and after checking all is well.. to do a Clone of your system drive..to an external drive... (SuperDuper! or Carbon Copy Cloner both work well for this..) that you can quickly restore from later if you need to do a full reinstall again, at some later date. Saves a lot of time.. and less wear and tear on your Superdrive and Logic Disks!!

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I spoke too soon... :cry:

 

Second day of testing and it dropped out a few hours after Garageband was left open.

 

Clean OS. Fresh install, repaired permissions even. .. I have no idea at this point what could be causing intermittent split second sound drop outs.

 

Metric Halo drivers are known to be solid as hell.

 

Cable is fine.

 

Hardware is fine.

 

Tested on two seperate computers running different OS's (Leopard and Snow Leopard) - still persists.

 

Perhaps someone with a ULN2 could go to console and check for a:

 

"performClientOutput returned e00002ee" error under "All messages" in console.

 

Support wrote: "performClientOutput returned e00002ee is a Core Audio error that means that the program did not deliver samples to the hardware device in time."

 

Garageband, Logic Pro, Quicktime, and Firefox all get it from time to time. I'm stumped.

 

Perhaps I would benefit from using a expresscard slot firewire card with a TI chipset in it.. I'm desperate for a fix.

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So basically after all your testing you get how many dropouts per hour? 1 an hour or 1 every two hours?

I get a weird jitter on a Motu 24I/O, which is PCIe, once every hour maybe or sometimes not at all, and we live with it.

And Motu has probably one of the best drivers out there.

Doesn't perturb the clients, job gets done.

 

If it were once every 5 minutes, I understand, then there's a problem. But otherwise I think you can live with it.

We all want a perfect setup, maybe it doesn't exist?

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Tested on two seperate computers running different OS's (Leopard and Snow Leopard) - still persists.

Were they both MacBooks? One of the hazards of using portable computers is all the power management stuff that is either scheduled or triggered by various events. Try disabling everything you can in that regard.

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So basically after all your testing you get how many dropouts per hour? 1 an hour or 1 every two hours?

I get a weird jitter on a Motu 24I/O, which is PCIe, once every hour maybe or sometimes not at all, and we live with it.

And Motu has probably one of the best drivers out there.

Doesn't perturb the clients, job gets done.

 

If it were once every 5 minutes, I understand, then there's a problem. But otherwise I think you can live with it.

We all want a perfect setup, maybe it doesn't exist?

 

Anything from 20mins into the session to 9 hours into one.

 

This happens alot on input monitoring in in Logic I realized after playing along with a tune for a couple of hours (practicing parts, etc).

 

Sometimes one won't even notice it due to the fact no audio is playing at the time. But console will show there was an error/dropout. I just hope it doesn't occur during any recording.

 

And you make a good point triplets. Nothing is perfect in this world... shamefully

:roll:

 

I just spent the last week in Logic for 6+ hours without any problems. So as long as I can get work done then I'm gonna try to not let it bother me. :wink:

 

As for live preforming, I wouldn't trust computers ...just yet :lol:

Edited by cheeserandyburg
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Tested on two seperate computers running different OS's (Leopard and Snow Leopard) - still persists.

Were they both MacBooks? One of the hazards of using portable computers is all the power management stuff that is either scheduled or triggered by various events. Try disabling everything you can in that regard.

 

One test was done on a 17" MacbookPro, other was done on a 24" iMac. On the iMac it took 8+ hours nonstop on input monitoring to pop up. (ie drop out). On a external USB drive with a fresh install of OS X 10.6.8 it took 6 hours or so. All I did for the tests was open up the DAW and leave it on over night with an audio track with input monitoring engaged. Noticed a dropout error 8 hours after starting up the DAW.

 

I've read and researched the power management issues, but its impossible to disable much on the Macbook really (screensaver off, screen never sleep, auto graphics switching is off, etc) AND since it has happened on the iMac and portable, I'm just gonna assume that computers aren't perfect at this stage yet.

 

It would be nice to know what causes these "audio resets" though.

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One test was done on a 17" MacbookPro, other was done on a 24" iMac. On the iMac it took 8+ hours nonstop on input monitoring to pop up. (ie drop out). On a external USB drive with a fresh install of OS X 10.6.8 it took 6 hours or so.

You installed the system on a USB drive? That's asking for trouble.

 

I'm afraid I'm out of suggestions. I've never, ever used Apple's consumer type Macs for professional media work. Just too many limitations with those things. So my experience doesn't go there. I've never been a believer in using peripheral busses for critical work and critical devices. There are just too many ways the OS, apps, other hardware, phase of the moon, etc., can interrupt their operation. So I stick to PCI/PCIe audio and DV interfaces and SATA/eSATA drives. I can, and have, been able to leave things running for literally weeks without a hiccup.

 

Maybe you're trying to get the wrong dogs to run?

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You installed the system on a USB drive? That's asking for trouble.

 

I'm afraid I'm out of suggestions. I've never, ever used Apple's consumer type Macs for professional media work. Just too many limitations with those things. So my experience doesn't go there. I've never been a believer in using peripheral busses for critical work and critical devices. There are just too many ways the OS, apps, other hardware, phase of the moon, etc., can interrupt their operation. So I stick to PCI/PCIe audio and DV interfaces and SATA/eSATA drives. I can, and have, been able to leave things running for literally weeks without a hiccup.

 

Maybe you're trying to get the wrong dogs to run?

 

The system was installed on the external to boot from only as a test. And it worked better and faster then the actual internal system because it was a fresh install. It was never an issue. Plus, I would never run audio apps or programs from an external, but to rule out problems with the system it had to be done.

 

Apple is just that "a consumer electronics" company, one can only ask so much from a company that sells iphones and ipods for the general public...

 

I thought of going back to PC for audio work, but I like OS X so much better. I'll just live with this.

 

Thanks :wink:

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The system was installed on the external to boot from only as a test. And it worked better and faster then the actual internal system because it was a fresh install.

OK, it doesn't work that way. All that tells you is that there's something wrong with your system setup. You must have installed something on your system that is causing the slowdown.

Apple is just that "a consumer electronics" company, one can only ask so much from a company that sells iphones and ipods for the general public...

 

I thought of going back to PC for audio work, but I like OS X so much better. I'll just live with this.

I never said anything about going back to a PC. What I'm saying is that in your case you may consider picking up a used Mac Pro and a PCIe audio interface if your goal is to have a computer that will reliably record continuously for days on end. But I'm not saying you can't get it working with your Imac/Macbook and firewire audio interface. You probably can, but you need to be absolutely sure that nothing is loading that can cause the OS to interrupt communication with your interface. This will require a good bit of due diligence as you go through all the running processes with a fine tooth comb until you've found it.

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you need to be absolutely sure that nothing is loading that can cause the OS to interrupt communication with your interface. This will require a good bit of due diligence as you go through all the running processes with a fine tooth comb until you've found it.

 

I can assure 99% that I have tried everything in the book (that I know of) to test for anything interfering. Since there is no such thing as DPC latency on Macs, I'm not sure what else could be possibly interfering. Random audio hiccups like this are just plain strange and annoying. I'm also unsure what else to do to make sure these hiccups stop happening...

 

I mean, 1) a fresh new computer, 2) with a brand new interface, 3) cable, and 4) drivers, and STILL a drop out? I can only blame OS X for this in the end.

 

Are mac firewire ports known to reset on their own every few hours? or "stop streaming" for a split second?

 

Is a TI firewire chipset more reliable for audio? From what I hear it is, but I highly doubt it'll solve this issue being that its SO intermittent.

 

Since the drop out error in console means "core audio didn't deliver audio samples on time to device" this is software related issue from what I gather.

 

In essence, the problem is basically "firewire audio data stream is getting interrupted" ... By what?.. No idea. Not an overload that's for sure. Not by the CPU getting hogged...

 

The fact it affects all audio applications is a good clue to something. But I'm still not seeing the light.

 

Just tonight there was a dropout in iTunes nothing else was being done on the computer at the time. Quick split-second-hiccup and back to normal. I simply have no clue, neither does support.

 

It seems to me that Mac's just don't perform with firewire devices that reliably. For the most part, they keep connected, especially when the firewire devices driver is stable. I can keep the connection fine for 9 hours even, but eventually there's a dropout in whichever audio app is running at the time, weather it be firefox, logic or itunes.

 

Is it possible to boot up in SAFE mode on a Mac with an external firewire audio interface connected? Or will it not even recognize it :?:

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It seems to me that Mac's just don't perform with firewire devices that reliably.

 

If this were so, then everyone would have these same dropouts and frankly, that is not the case..

 

I went through my logs just to check that I was not having any 'split second' dropouts and I am not... My FW800 is humming along nicely... and this is an FW800 that is loaded with 4 FW800 drives (2xGlyphs and 2x Seagate) and an Ultralite interface at the end of the chain... so, like fader8 implied... there has to be something else going on here, that is specific to your system and that is causing your issue...

 

What exactly that is, is hard to say... but the fact you are still having this issue despite your various changes in equipment etc.. does not mean it is an issue with OS X.

 

So, are there any common factors other than the OS, that have remained the same throughout your tests?

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Since the drop out error in console means "core audio didn't deliver audio samples on time to device" this is software related issue from what I gather.

No. In fact this points squarely at the hardware/driver being the issue. The OS is just dutifully reporting that the device isn't accepting data. To confirm this, and rule out the possibility of it being OS related, run the system using the built-in audio interface. Set up an app to record to a mono .caf file. Go to bed. See what's happening in the morning. Let it run as long as you can.

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It seems to me that Mac's just don't perform with firewire devices that reliably.

 

If this were so, then everyone would have these same dropouts and frankly, that is not the case..

 

I went through my logs just to check that I was not having any 'split second' dropouts and I am not... My FW800 is humming along nicely... and this is an FW800 that is loaded with 4 FW800 drives (2xGlyphs and 2x Seagate) and an Ultralite interface at the end of the chain... so, like fader8 implied... there has to be something else going on here, that is specific to your system and that is causing your issue...

 

What exactly that is, is hard to say... but the fact you are still having this issue despite your various changes in equipment etc.. does not mean it is an issue with OS X.

 

So, are there any common factors other than the OS, that have remained the same throughout your tests?

 

Thats true and good points n6smith, however let me rule a few things out:

 

So far the tests have been:

 

Test 1) (Main rig): ULN2 into firewire port 800 on Macbook Pro (10.6. 8) using 400-800 cable = intermittent drop out. Using all up to date drivers.

 

Test 2: ULN2 into firewire port 800 on 2009 iMac (10.5. 8) using the same 400-800 cable = intermittent drop out. Using all up to date drivers.

 

Test 3: ULN2 into firewire port 800 on Macbook Pro booted from External USB Hard drive that has a fresh install of SL 10.6.8. Using all up to date drivers.

 

Very simple, straight foward setup. Nothing special. I'm sure there's others on this board who have considered and own a setup like this aswell.

 

I'm not doing anything different then anyone else would, which is the truly puzzling part of all this.

 

It's basically a cat and mouse game this point, in the sense - will the drop out catch me, or will I catch the drop out before it hits. Had a recording messed up in Quicktime once. I let it slip. Matter of time before it can happen in Logic from what I feel at this point. 4+ hrs in Logic last week no problem. Perhaps the 5th hour in Logic and I would of had it.

 

Today 1 hour into iTunes playing and poof.

 

Only thing left for me to try is using a 400-400 firewire cable into iMac since Macbook only has the 800 port. Then again, cable is probably fine being that it streams audio for hours on end.

Edited by cheeserandyburg
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