How do you program powerful MIDI drums?

[musicguy7]

I'm mainly talking about the kick drums. I find that when sequencing kicks, they just sound weak, the only thing that comes to mind to crank the velocity parameter to 127, but that doesn't always help. Are there other midi parameters that I can work with to make the kick stronger and louder? or is this done in the audio realm?

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

...or is this done in the audio realm?

 

Yes.

 

If it's just a volume issue, then increase the level, rather than velocity, of the kick.

 

Your kick samples may suck.

 

You may be drowning it out with bass frequencies from other instruments, ie. it's a mixing issue.

 

All in the audio realm. You shouldn't be having to ramp up the velocity of hits to 127 just to have them heard, either you haven't programmed the sampler instrument correctly, or your mixing it badly.

[simpleton]

try out fader8's trick (in his second post from this thread):

 

http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=75786&

[leechlife]

also if you just layer a few different samples - i usually use 2-3 for kicks - then you can archive a more penetrating kick.

 

I use a few different samples with different sound, so then I can blend and by turing on or the other up and down I can also shape the sound.

 

I prefer that over using too much compressors, eq's and transient shapers.

 

If I say sample I mean of course a multi layered samples, as any modern sampler would use.

 

I advice not to freeze midi to 127, rather let this variate a bit to avoid static drums sound over the song, but of course it sometimes suits as well.

[musicguy7]

Your kick samples may suck.

 

I've mainly only been using the Logic Ultrabeat samples/kicks, no good?

 

 

 

You shouldn't be having to ramp up the velocity of hits to 127 just to have them heard,

 

Well they can be heard, they just sound weak, and not like *gulp* real drums, like how a real kick penetrates and is powerful the whole cycle through, with maybe a bit of reverb? it's probably not reverb I'm thinking about, but more of how the kick samples dissapates naturally...instead of clean kick sample triggered by midi, on and off sound, which sounds awkward and unreal in an otherwise musical mix...

 

 

 

I always wondered about layering kicks, what exactly are you increasing here? don't u use up more precious headroom, layering multiple kicks seem like it will muddy up the mix quickly...if u layer, do u need to compensate a few things using compressor and limiter settings to keep those multiple kicks under control? do u send all them to the same bus and compress/limit from there?

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

Your kick samples may suck.

 

I've mainly only been using the Logic Ultrabeat samples/kicks, no good?

 

They should be fine.

 

Well they can be heard, they just sound weak, and not like *gulp* real drums, like how a real kick penetrates and is powerful the whole cycle through, with maybe a bit of reverb? it's probably not reverb I'm thinking about, but more of how the kick samples dissapates naturally...instead of clean kick sample triggered by midi, on and off sound, which sounds awkward and unreal in an otherwise musical mix...

 

Usually, midi drums are "one-shot" triggers, meaning the entire sample of the drum hit plays out, it shouldn't be suddenly stopping the drum sample part-way through if you're using stock EXS/Ultrabeat kits.

Maybe you need kick samples with more sustain.

Sidechain compression on the bass could help.

EQ on the kick could help.

 

 

I always wondered about layering kicks, what exactly are you increasing here?

 

You, generally, increase the frequency content of the kick. You may like the attack on one, the sustain of another, and the high-end noise of another. You might use filters to try and isolate those sounds too.

 

don't u use up more precious headroom, layering multiple kicks seem like it will muddy up the mix quickly...if u layer, do u need to compensate a few things using compressor and limiter settings to keep those multiple kicks under control? do u send all them to the same bus and compress/limit from there?

 

Rather than compress or limit, you could just turn the levels down. Sending them to an aux channel is another option.

 

Layering kicks, of course, won't lead to "realistic" drum sounds though.

[nmaison]

a few things can be done, firstly turn your whole mix down, bring up the kick to taste

a lot of people get into the habit of trying to make their "mix sound loud" when thats in the mastering stage, first step is to get the mix sounding good. volume comes in to play in the mastering stage with that said mix low, this gives you the headroom needed to mix.

i like to clip the drums,not to be confused with peaking while recording, clipping is useful every time you need to cut out all the peaks that keep the average level of a signal too low.

 

i also dont care too much for logics drums but have heard some awesome mixes with them. i use Steven Slate Drums for all my shells. cymbals i use joey sturgis cymbals