CCTMusic Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 One last comment- in Preview, try searching for standard MIDI file or smf - I get nothing...? I thought the PDF search function was appreciably better than that??!! I guess you'll have to RTFM (Start at page 72) CCT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Z Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I guess you'll have to RTFM (Start at page 72) Tough crowd! May even take it to print shop to print out. Not a big fan of reading on my monitor for a long period of time.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 May even take it to print shop to print out. Not a big fan of reading on my monitor for a long period of time.. This is why Apple gave RTFM'ers.. an iPad... Upload the PDFs onto that and you have the best of both worlds.. Portability and Searchable (and the ability to make notes within the doc too!) An iPad is Eerie....... (E.R.R.E.) Essential Restroom Reading Equipment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herr gunstig Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 objc[286]: FREED(id): message _removeAllCellMouseTracking sent to freed object=0x40ef9020 I saw this but it went away when I upgraded to 10.7 Lion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dclobster Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I agree. A start and stop would be nice. Nice MIDI work around. I'll give it a try. I liked the fact I can configure my external instruments with a single patch change (by sending a MIDI dump) For now I'll continue to try to find a solution. Maybe I can configure NI Kore to help out as a plug in.... external sequencer is probably the best thing at this point. Thanks for your help. It's a neat app - please continue to support logic environment! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Savage Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Having no experience with the App Store.... Do you get a .dmg? Or is the install streamed? Or anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Viv, The App store version of MS is a streamed download/upgrade/install. No dmg... You might want to backup your current MS app before you do so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Savage Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 That's a big disappointment. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmm42 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 That's a big disappointment. That it is not streamed, or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 That's a big disappointment. That it is not streamed, or what? That MS 2.2 IS streamed... and not downloadable as a .dmg... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlosUnderground Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 That's my biggest issue with the App Store. They should give us the option. It's still cool as a concept, but not practical for critical software users. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I agree with you Carlos.. though I also think, in part, the switch to the App Store model is also about fighting Piracy as much as saving costs.... though given how apparently easy it is to hack most App store apps I'm not sure ow effective a DRM system it really is (at this time at least) However, I'm also hearing that one possible cause of the 'Phone Home' issue that some people are having with Logic 9.1.6 is that they added a new layer to the App Store protection for this particular program (and possibly for MS2.2 too) and it's this new layer of protection that is a part of the issue... Having said that, I am also hearing (and seeing..) it has made Logic as both an App Store App and a downloadable update.. harder to crack/duplicate.. so time will tell if that is really true or not.. but so far i haven't seen a hacked copy doing the rounds and normally by now, you would do so with most other apps.. or prior Logic updates for that matter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmm42 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 That MS 2.2 IS streamed... and not downloadable as a .dmg... The App Store downloads a pkg (sort of a ZIP archive), which is installed and then the app is authorized on your computer. For that authorization an internet connection is required. That has nothing to do with streaming. And because there are no more serial numbers or dongles, this authorization is the only protection against pirating the app. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmm42 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 IHowever, I'm also hearing that one possible cause of the 'Phone Home' issue that some people are having with Logic 9.1.6 But Logic and MainStage have to have a chance to download missing or additional content - that's probably what people are seeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Savage Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 That MS 2.2 IS streamed... and not downloadable as a .dmg... The App Store downloads a pkg (sort of a ZIP archive), which is installed and then the app is authorized on your computer. For that authorization an internet connection is required. That has nothing to do with streaming. And because there are no more serial numbers or dongles, this authorization is the only protection against pirating the app. Okay, silver lining just appeared. A package file is okay obviously. What I am afraid of is that Apple decides to simply ditch a few versions ago. It's not as if Apple isn't known to be so abrupt... Just as an example, say I am quite happy with the freshly downloaded Logic 10 and MainStage 3 (obviously both from the AppStore), and Logic 11 is released. Half a year after Logic 11 sees the light of day my Mac decides to trek to Valhalla and I have to get a new one. Obviously I will need to put Logic and MainStage on it, and as I am quite happy with Logic 10/MainStage 3 I want them back. But they were from the AppStore who is currently pushing Logic 11 and MainStage 4 at us. I doubt Apple will keep a version of Logic 9 and up on the "re-download" server for us, so unless I have "something tangible" like a .dmg or a .pkg I am screwed and forced to get Logic 11 on top of a new bitbucket. I don't want that as I am quite happy with Logic 10 and already have given a generous donation to line their pockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCTMusic Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 ]Okay, silver lining just appeared. A package file is okay obviously. What I am afraid of is that Apple decides to simply ditch a few versions ago. It's not as if Apple isn't known to be so abrupt... Half a year after Logic 11 sees the light of day my Mac decides to trek to Valhalla and I have to get a new one. Obviously I will need to put Logic and MainStage on it, and as I am quite happy with Logic 10/MainStage 3 I want them back. But they were from the AppStore who is currently pushing Logic 11 and MainStage 4 at us. I doubt Apple will keep a version of Logic 9 and up on the "re-download" server for us, so unless I have "something tangible" like a .dmg or a .pkg I am screwed and forced to get Logic 11 on top of a new bitbucket. I don't want that as I am quite happy with Logic 10 and already have given a generous donation to line their pockets. Hi Very pertinent point.... Assuming that the "old versions" will run on your replacement OS/Mac, and assuming that they can be 'authorised' via the AppStore if needed..... (or indeed on your current Mac that you have just re-installed from scratch) Currently, you'd need to make a backup copy of the Application itself. Logic & MS seem to be the "oddballs" of the ProApps from Apple, in that some of their 'content' and necessary files are stored elsewhere (Library, etc), so you'd probably need to make a full/careful backup of all of it. You can make backups of the "additional" Logic and MS installers, provided that you make the copies before the installers run. It would seem that Motion 5, for example, stores all it's 'content' within the application package. CCT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Savage Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I have a monthly backup regime in that I create a new disc image through SuperDuper. I also guess that the various versions of Logic (and others of course) can be found in Time Machine. But this scenario is keeping me extremely sceptic of the AppStore thing. I do realize that it is indeed a question whether the "old stuff" will work on the new computer, but most of the time it should. In Logic's case there are a bucnh of variables that can are just too unknown. For example... Is it the OS that dictates the AU structure? Or Logic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCTMusic Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Hi I guess that one must trust that the AppStore 'my purchases' log would know that you owned the old version, and therefore allow you to download and install? CCT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmm42 Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I guess that one must trust that the AppStore 'my purchases' log would know that you owned the old version, and therefore allow you to download and install? No, the App Store only allows you to download the latest version. If you want to keep older versions: keep backups! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ensho Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 After starting this thread, I have since downloaded MS 2.2 myself. I had to update my MacBookPro (2.53Ghz i5 4GB) from MacOS 10.6.6 to 10.6.8 first. I used MS 2.12 before. (I had skipped the last update.) I ran MS 2.2 and loaded my most recent concert. The CPU usage used to sit at 40% if I didn't play. Now in MS 2.2, it went straight to 100% and stayed in the red. I checked the preferences to make sure the new version ran on the same sample rate (44.1) with the same buffer (128 samples) and with the safety buffer on. I must be doing something very wrong for sure. MS 2.2 can't possibly be meant to run so CPU consuming. Any ideas? I have some screenshots. Cheers, ensho Before (MS 2.12) After (MS 2.2) - The '100' next to the clock is CPU usage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmm42 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 This has been written several times in many forums: (a) MS 2.2 has a smaller latency (despite what the preferences show) if "I/O Safety Buffer" is active. (b) MS 2.2 has a different algorithm to display CPU load, it can't be compared with MS 2.1.3 and a bunch of other differences which make it hard to compare them directly! However: if you have _without_ I/O Safety Buffer drop outs in 2.2, but not in 2.1.3, you might be up to something. Otherwise you have to roughly double the latency in 2.2 with I/O Safety Buffer on to compare it with 2.1.3. Even then MS 2.2 has a much better sync with AUs/ReWire/external MIDI, which might cost a bit CPU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCTMusic Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (a) MS 2.2 has a smaller latency (despite what the preferences show) if "I/O Safety Buffer" is active. Hi I'm not sure that I understand what you are saying here... perhaps you could clarify? Do you mean that the displayed latency figure is not correct (reporting the wrong latency ms)? Do you mean the actual latency smaller if the Safety Buffer is on (smaller than the same buffer size with the Safety off)???? or simply that the Safety buffer does not add as much as it used to? Otherwise you have to roughly double the latency in 2.2 with I/O Safety Buffer on to compare it with 2.1.3. Do you mean that to get the equivalent latency between v 2.2 & 2.1.3 you need to double the buffer size when the Safety Buffer is on? (Ie I need to run at 64 in 2.2 and 128 in 2.1.3 to get the same latency)? What about when the Safety is off? Thanks CCT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ensho Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 Thanks mmm42 for the information. I hadn't read it anywhere. Indeed, once I increased the buffer size, the CPU went down (and the latency went up) to a setting similar to what I have been used to in the older version. I have yet to put more time into it but my first impression was that those numbers haven't improved from the older version. That might not have been their goal, either, but it was something I had hoped for: less latency with the same CPU usage. Nevertheless, thanks for pointing it out to me / us. Cheers, ensho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCTMusic Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 [ I'm not sure that I understand what you are saying here... perhaps you could clarify? Do you mean that the displayed latency figure is not correct (reporting the wrong latency ms)? Do you mean the actual latency smaller if the Safety Buffer is on (smaller than the same buffer size with the Safety off)???? or simply that the Safety buffer does not add as much as it used to? Otherwise you have to roughly double the latency in 2.2 with I/O Safety Buffer on to compare it with 2.1.3. Do you mean that to get the equivalent latency between v 2.2 & 2.1.3 you need to double the buffer size when the Safety Buffer is on? (Ie I need to run at 64 in 2.2 and 128 in 2.1.3 to get the same latency)? What about when the Safety is off? Thanks CCT Hi Further to this, there is a KB doc on the subject: http://support.apple.com/kb/TS4157 CCT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Z Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Thanks for the link. I understand their concept, but I don't see how their math works out for the claim of settings being "equal". Similar might be a better word, or it's possible I missed something. From Apple "The size of that additional buffer changed in MainStage 2.2. In MainStage 2.1.x it was two times I/O Buffer Size while in MainStage 2.2 it is equal to the I/O Buffer Size setting. As a result, the CPU load is increased, but the round trip latency is less than with the same settings used previously in MainStage 2.1.x. To set MainStage 2.2 to the same latency and CPU performance as MainStage 2.1.x: Set the I/O Buffer Size to the next highest setting (for example, if you were running at 128 samples, set it to 256 samples). Turn off I/O Safety Buffer." If I'm running my buffer at 128 and the 2.1.x safety buffer is 2x the size of the buffer, that buffer is 256. Since they call this "additional", my total buffer size would be 384. If I am running in 2.2 and set my buffer to 256 with no safety buffer enabled, my total size is ... 256?! Similar, but not equal..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCTMusic Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Thanks for the link. I understand their concept, but I don't see how their math works out for the claim of settings being "equal". Similar might be a better word, or it's possible I missed something. If I'm running my buffer at 128 and the 2.1.x safety buffer is 2x the size of the buffer, that buffer is 256. Since they call this "additional", my total buffer size would be 384. If I am running in 2.2 and set my buffer to 256 with no safety buffer enabled, my total size is ... 256?! Similar, but not equal..... Yep ????!!!!??? CCT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ensho Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Adjusting numbers doesn't improve the music. The really interesting question is in how far Mainstage's performance behaviour has changed: how much can the CPU handle? How little latency can you get away with?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_Stone Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Adjusting numbers doesn't improve the music. The really interesting question is in how far Mainstage's performance behaviour has changed: how much can the CPU handle? How little latency can you get away with?... 2.2.1 is out and should improve performance on 2 core Macs over 2.2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsbaker Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I shelved MainStage earlier in the year due to CPU spikes and audio dropouts with a 2.4ghz Core 2 Duo MacBook. I just got a new Mini Server with 2.0ghz quad core i7, and decided to give 2.2.1 a try. I'm happy to say it is humming along nicely enough for me to spend time putting together a new setup for live performance if it continues to behave. Its using all cores in a balanced fashion, and I am getting <10 ms roundtrip latency with MS reporting about 30% cpu. <10% latency is my goal for software instruments and guitar. For vocal and sax, I run audio direct, using MS for delay/reverb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_Stone Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I shelved MainStage earlier in the year due to CPU spikes and audio dropouts with a 2.4ghz Core 2 Duo MacBook. I just got a new Mini Server with 2.0ghz quad core i7, and decided to give 2.2.1 a try. I'm happy to say it is humming along nicely enough for me to spend time putting together a new setup for live performance if it continues to behave. Its using all cores in a balanced fashion, and I am getting <10 ms roundtrip latency with MS reporting about 30% cpu. <10% latency is my goal for software instruments and guitar. For vocal and sax, I run audio direct, using MS for delay/reverb. I've been really curious about that machine and how MainStage performs on it. Can you provide additional feedback as you get deeper into setup? Sounds like so far, its humming along beautifully. Also, if you use controllers like the VAX77 with it, you can probably use it with no display during performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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