Beat mapping audio then quantizing

[Jan Steele]

I have a preexisting audio project (transcribed from 8-track tape) which I need to beat map and then quantize so that I can then add a drum track. Is this possible - and if so what are the processes I need apply after the beat mapping?

 

Presumably I need to create a time grid somehow after the mapping so that I can quantize to that?

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

Presumably I need to create a time grid somehow after the mapping so that I can quantize to that?

 

When you Beat Map it, you are changing the tempo of the project between each transient you map. Once mapped, as long as you have the correct time signatures in place, your audio will match up to Logic's grid.

 

Then it's up to you whether you want to programme/record drums to the original tempi, or use Flex to quantize the audio (which I can't help with, as I'm on Logic 8 ).

[Jan Steele]

I've investigated further - and I think it's not beat mapping I require, but using beat detection to create tempo changes, so that I can create a tempo for the project as a whole. I've tried Options>Tempo>Adjust Tempo uisng Beat Detection but it gives the result "No Beats Detected" which doesn't surprise me given the nature of the original audio material. But I know where the beats are myself. Is there a way of putting them in manually and then adjusting the tempo?

[CCTMusic]

Hi

 

You need to Beatmap your existing audio *before you enable Flex*.

 

Once BM is complete, you should have a tempo map such that Logic's grid lines up with the existing audio material. You can the Flex/quantise that audio as required, and program additional material or use Appleloops etc as you wish.

 

 

CCT

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

...I know where the beats are myself. Is there a way of putting them in manually and then adjusting the tempo?

 

That is beatmapping.

 

If you're worried about taking the plunge, save a seperate version of your project and try out Beat Mapping. If you get the tempo close to the audio to begin with, it will make it easier.

 

You can adjust the tempo manually by creating tempo events throughout the song, but that's just performing the same function as beatmapping, but most likely with less accuracy.

[mejon]

I've had success recording a live cowbell (usually quarter notes) to an existing song with fluctuating tempos, nudging the recorded cowbell track where necessary, then beatmapping Logic to the newly recorded/edited cowbell track. It's a fast process.

[mejon]

Hi

 

You need to Beatmap your existing audio *before you enable Flex*.

 

Once BM is complete, you should have a tempo map such that Logic's grid lines up with the existing audio material. You can the Flex/quantise that audio as required, and program additional material or use Appleloops etc as you wish.

 

 

CCT

 

It should be pointed out that if you are importing audio with tempo changes that were recorded in another DAW, that those audio files may contain tempo information embedded in them which will overide Logic's tempo map when you enable flex. I experience this when attempting to flex imported audio files (with tempo changes) that were recorded in Pro Tools.

 

You may or may not experience this, but if you do, you'll probably have to use the command Export Tempo Information to Audio File to all of the imported audio files.

 

Here's a thread about this:

 

http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=77362&highlight=

[Jan Steele]

I've tried beat mapping and I don't think it's what I want. I need to conform my pre-existing audio - which has no digital tempo information in it - to a grid with no tempo changes, not the other way around!

[CCTMusic]

I've tried beat mapping and I don't think it's what I want. I need to conform my pre-existing audio - which has no digital tempo information in it - to a grid with no tempo changes, not the other way around!

 

 

Hi

 

3 stage process:

 

1 Beat map to sort out what the original tempo map is

 

2 Enable Flex

 

3 call up a new tempo alternative at what ever tempo you want

 

(not withstanding previous comments re pre-existing tempo info embedded with the file.

 

CCT

[Jan Steele]

That worked a treat - thanks. The very clear instructions made all the difference!

 

Now a complication. Because I am having to produce many different versions of the arrangement to meet the needs of a library project, I would ideally like to be able to synch the original mix (again an audio file with no tempo information data embedded) with the multitrack files. Should I try to line the files up against each other before beatmapping, or would it be better to beat map the mix and the multitrack files in a separate project and then import the stereo mix (with tempo data now included) into the multitrack project?

 

Or maybe this is just too complicated and I should work on two separate projects?

[FlowerPower]

Hi,

if you explain what you need to do in an even more detailed way, it's easier to get help...

[Jan Steele]

Ok I'll have another go.

 

I have a piece which I recorded in the 80's on 8-track tape. I also have the original mix of this which was mixed to stereo. There is no tempo data in either of the recordings. I have had them all transferred to digital.

 

Importing the multitrack files into Logic is no problem - because they are all exactly the same length. Once in Logic I have been able to beatmap them and experiment with them prior to adding a drumtrack and various other instruments.

 

But ideally I would like to have the stereo mix imported into the same Logic project, so that I can add the same things to that mix. The issue here is that the original mix is very characteristic, and I couldn't possibly reproduce it. At the time I fed some of the tracks through an old analogue Korg synth and processed that signal through an FX unit - in fact I can't remember exactly what I did. So it's likely that if I try to reproduce the sound of that mix using the old files, I won't get anything like it - so I need the option of adding the new things to either the multitrack files or the original mix.

 

If I could line up the stereo mix with the multitrack files in one project that would be great - but it's proving very difficult to do because however close I get them together at the beginning they always end up out of synch at the end. So the only remedy I can think of is to beatmap the multitrack files and the mix in two separate projects and then import one into the other. Is this likely to work and what would the workflow be after beatmapping them.

 

Of course I can have a go at it and experiment - but I thought that it might be quicker to ask people who know Logic well if it is possible first so that I don't waste hours trying it out.

[FlowerPower]

If I could line up the stereo mix with the multitrack files in one project that would be great - but it's proving very difficult to do because however close I get them together at the beginning they always end up out of synch at the end.

This should be quite simple in Logic 9.

 

Import the stereomix into the Logic (multitrack) project - the project consisting of all the individual tracks from the source tape. (The individual files are already analyzed for transients, aren't they?)

 

• First try this - this will work if the tempo difference in the stereo mix is constant throughout the file).... (<--- if the 8 indivual tracks aren't Flexed, that is...)_

 

Now, time stretch the stereo mix so it ends at the same spot as the material individual tracks. One way of doing this is to enable Flex on the stereo track, and place a Flex marker on a spot - at the very end of the file - on a spot which is easy to identify accurrately in one of the individual tracks. Ideally this should be a percussive sound. You can also grab the right corner of the stereomix and time stretch so it is alined with the other regions this way, but we don't know if the files have the same amount of silence after the music, so that solution may not work...)

 

Let's say your stereomix is on track 9 in Logic, and the individual files are on tracks 1-8. Grab that Flex marker (in the stereomox) and drag it on top of a detected transient in any of the 8 indivudual files. Now, Logic will time stretch the stereo mix so that this percussive sound is aligned with the same sound on the indivudual track containing this sound.

 

 

-------

 

The follwoing method should be used in the tempo is altered (intentionally or unintentionally) in either the stereo track or (any of) the individual tracks:

 

• Repeat the process described above several times: Start playback from the beginning of the project, and when you hear something wich isn't in sync (it could be in bar 2, or bar 50...), place a Flex marker on the stereo track at that very position. Use Control + Shift to get it accuraetly positioned.

 

Since Logic can align a Flex marker on any track to a transient (or MIDI note) or any other track, just drag that Flex marker to any position (transient) you want on any of the other tracks, and keep going until the whole stereo file is aligned to your (already Flex'ed or unFlex'ed) individual tracks.

 

After you're done with your track 9, you can create a new track, track 10, and do something different with your stereo mix there. Flex markers aren't saved in the audio file - transient markers are.

 

If you want to avoid confusion, you can always convert your stereomix into a new, unique file before starting on track #10. This is, btw, necessary if you ever will the transient markers in the stereomix on the subsequent tracks. And - if you edit them on track 9, they'll change what happens in track 10 as well - if these tracks share the same file.

 

It's important to understand the difference between transient markers and Flex markers to avoid headache. It may help to think of Flex markers as 'anchors', relevant to the project you're working on only...

[Jan Steele]

I managed to do it - not quite the way you suggested because the audio was so vague by the end of the stereo mix that it was impossible to decipher the last percussive tone (actually a piano bass note) - even by scrubbing. But I was able to put a flex marker on the very first piano tone, and the same in the piano track - then line then both up on the first beat of a bar and everything plays in synch to the end!

 

Thanks for you help.

[FlowerPower]

That's good to hear!

 

Just in case you need this next time...:

I forgot to mention that you can place (and reposition) a Flex marker anywhere you want it - if you place a Flex marker approx. where you want it, and press Option, you can fine tune it's position without executing any 'Flex'ing'.

 

Likewise, if you drop a Flex marker over another region where there's no transients, you can use Control to place it where you want (without the reference region needing to have any tranisent markers or Flex markers at that position).

[Jan Steele]

Hi

 

3 stage process:

 

1 Beat map to sort out what the original tempo map is

 

2 Enable Flex

 

3 call up a new tempo alternative at what ever tempo you want

 

(not withstanding previous comments re pre-existing tempo info embedded with the file.

 

CCT

 

I've returned to this project after working on something else and I realize that I am still not clear. [NB I've abandoned trying to use the stereo mix with the multitrack files because it just complicated things too much - so ignore anything in the thread to do with that.]

 

So - I've beatmapped the one track where tempo events are clearly audible and visible in the wave form.

 

Then I enable Flex on all tracks.

 

If I try a new tempo alternative the audio shifts to the left in all the regions and is out of time with the click. I've tried all sorts of things including putting all the tracks in a Mixer Group but I just can't work out how to quantize this.

[Jan Steele]

Since the last message I've managed to get the result I want using no beat mapping and just moving events with flex markers, but it would still be good to know how to quantize audio after beat mapping because it should presumably be a quicker process.