suddenfun Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I am having a problem where my Fantom G6 (and now the Virus tracks too) ....the VU in the mixers tracks to go dead. I continue to hear the instrument play and the arrange track VU works but no fader control and of course dead VU. Then in two cases working with tech support we made a feedback loop and this switched in core audio when I change from internal Mac to Fireface 800 the feedback loop moved to the Fireface. The Vu failure problem that I have seen occur in front of my eyes several times. Working with Apple this weekend we created a new user on my Mac and for the first run things worked ok but then later failed in the same way as in my main account. I have previously posted "Mixer VU meter and track strip dies, vu works in arrange" and after a week it remains unanswered. This and the fact that the only other such posting I found was from 2009 and also unanswered makes me think I have a very unique problem or else it is something I am doing wrong...but I see it work and then fail so ...I don't necessarily think it is me. Thanks for any assistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruari Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Hi I've seen this happen before, thing is when it happened to me it was only when I was using the Virus & only on USB 1&2, the other two channel strips meters displayed fine - at the time I thought it was the fault of the Virus Control software but because I could still hear the patch playing I decided that it was possibly a bug in Logic. How are you getting the sound of your Fantom into Logic? I haven't seen this since 9.1.4 by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suddenfun Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 That is a good call I will dissconnect the Virus and see what it does. I have a full multi instrument 16 ch. set with the studio setting in G6 editor but I don't recall right now if anything over channel 3 and above worked...I don't think it did. I have the Fantom connected by USB and also run it hardware out into 5-6 and 7-8 pairs on my RME Fireface. I am a little confused about this but I think if the set parameter/mix output to parallel it goes usb and mix it goes out hardware pairs (2). Thanks for your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suddenfun Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Sorry, I just remembered Idid test this with the Virus dissconnected. Still failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muuseec Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 The VU-s have gone dead for ages on loads of channels for me and I don't even have a Virus. I have grown accustomed to that it's just the way Logic works (or not works). The bugs in Logic are numerous so I just don't bother anymore. Like "hey it just crashed", ok, restart as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I have grown accustomed to that it's just the way Logic works (or not works).The bugs in Logic are numerous so I just don't bother anymore. Like "hey it just crashed", ok, restart as usual. That is not the way Logic works at all. The likely culprit will be either your audio/midi interface and it's drivers... or your own setup./config and not Logic. For example, I have absolutely no issues with "VU" meters not working and have never seen that happen at all in the different versions of Logic I have used since way back when Also, what 'numerous' bugs in Logic, are you referring to as I use Logic on a daily basis and what bugs exist in the current version with Lion.. are far and few between.... Most 'bugs' people attribute to Logic are actually bugs in drivers or interactions with poorly written 3rd party software they have installed or 3rd party plugin issues and not actually Logic at all. While there are a few well known bugs in Logic of course.. and most of them are well documented.. I wouldn't say they were 'numerous' by any means... hence my question about what bugs are you referring to.. In my experience, when tracking down weird things going on with Logic that only affect individual users and not the main user base in general... the fault/cause almost always lies outside of Logic itself but of course, the natural assumption is to 'blame' Logic until the true cause of the issue has been properly identified and corrected! Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Are you all referring to 9.1.6? I've never seen this on Snow Leopard/9.1.5 or previous versions/combinations of OSX/Logic. Regarding Logic bugs, I respectfully, kindly, friend-ily beg to differ. There are tons of bugs that have nothing to do with 3rd party stuff. I could probably list 100 of 'em if I had the time and inclination to do it, but I don't . I think the degree of buginess that someone experiences has a lot to do with what kinds of operations they perform in Logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Regarding Logic bugs, I respectfully beg to differ. There are tons of bugs that have nothing to do with 3rd party stuff. I could probably list 100 of 'em if I had the time and inclination to do it, but I don't With likewise respect, I was speaking about 'show stopping' bugs rather than little issues which there are many I will agree... but ones where Logic itself, is the primary cause of crashes or hangs.. or issues that prevent one from working to any major degree... are relatively far and few between. (Updated to clarify my thoughts/opinion) It's either that or maybe I don't notice and/or suffer from as many of these bugs... because I don't use those 'classy' USB cables? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I have seen this dead channel meter bug a little while back. The channel still passes and processes audio, just the level meters stay dead. It was supposed to have been fixed though I think in the last version. Culprit seems to be a case of project corruption or some bug that was triggered, I had a project sent to me demonstrating this and I could see the behaviour as I loaded the project into my own system. I'll see if I can dig up the relevant thread... All DAWs have bugs. Big ones, little ones. Ones that don't affect you but cause problems for others, and ones that affect you but don't seem to affect others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Nigel, the up-market USB cables definitely help out I agree in part that there aren't many Logic-specific bugs (at least none that I'm aware of) that'll cause Logic to grind to a halt or crash. Actually one just came to mind, but that aside... there are plenty of show-stoppers in Logic, but I think it all depends on what "show stopper" means to any one person. To the subject of dead meters, I recall now that I've seen this happen when an instrument channel dies (a fairly rare occurrence) but that's about it. In this case, there's no sound to go along with the lack of metering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Nigel, the up-market USB cables definitely help out http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_aOVUVB-gmBA/SuhwN_W6hbI/AAAAAAAASHw/fEPK2Luv3cY/s400/Gold-USB.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facepalm Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 The meters in Logic are Digital Level meters, not VU meters. Sort it out, guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 The meters in Logic are Digital Level meters, not VU meters.Sort it out, guys. http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/jdo/lowres/jdon104l.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 The meters in Logic are Digital Level meters, not VU meters.Sort it out, guys. When you're using insanely expensive USB cables like I am, the meters in Logic automatically turn into VU meters. Right beej? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suddenfun Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Now my Virus and Fantom tracks have dead mixer digital meters. The latest I tried: I have each synth plugged into Hardware inputs on my RME fireface so I open an audio track and assign the input to the pair that the fantom goes in 5-6 and I do the same for the Virus pair that goes in to 3-4. Even though I can see the dig-meter levels on the RME total Mix interface ...I still have no dig-meters in Logic...none on instruments nor audio nor output track 1-2....The problem has gotten worse...I hope it can fixed...I have a call appointment with the guy from Apple tomorrow at 2pm central Ok ... they're digital meters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 When you're using insanely expensive USB cables like I am, the meters in Logic automatically turn into VU meters. Right beej? I couldn't stretch to the Insanely Expensive ones, so I had to just get the mid range Ludicrously Pricey ones - consequently, I can't get the full "VU" meter, but I got plenty of "V" ones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Even though I can see the dig-meter levels on the RME total Mix interface ...I still have no dig-meters in Logic...none on instruments nor audio nor output track 1-2.... And these channels are *definitely* passing audio, and plugins get processed on them - just the meters display no level at all? Try again in a new, fresh empty template. Work now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 suddenfun, Is this problem specific to one song? Do you experience these problems on newly-started projects? (Try creating a new project from the Empty > Explore template and see if you get the same behavior). beej, Even though you didn't shell out as much as I did, I think you qualify to become a member of the USBling club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suddenfun Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Ok guys no it is not just the meter, there is no fader control and I have not used plug in's considering the test a failure at that point. Yesterday I created a new account in my Macpro, when i recreated a simple project at first it worked as it should but then failed in front of me as it has in my main account several times. The problem exists in differing stages on several projects created over the last few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suddenfun Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 I didn't have all this gear hooked up, specifically the Fantom G6 when I first installed and brought up Logic. Should I be thinking about a re-install? The thing is when I made the test account in the mac and opened logic for the first time you could see the system scan all midi and audio devices. We have deleted prefrences files from the library/prefrences but that does not make the system rescan in the the way it did on the test account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Even though you didn't shell out as much as I did, I think you qualify to become a member of the USBling club. Oh right... I see.. that's how the game is played is it????? I have to use Walmart Brand USB cables due to purely financial and locational limitations... and for that I am ostracized.... and forced to live my life belonging to the "My USB Cables Are Nothing More Than A Pile Of Wombat Droppings Encased In Plastic" , otherwise known as MUCANMTAPOWDEIP, group instead. At least my Acronym is longer..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Hey, that's one more pile of droppings than I have in my studio, so in that department you're ahead of the game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Ok guys no it is not just the meter, there is no fader control... Screenshot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muuseec Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Please. Digital meters then if that makes you happy. I was just referring to what someone wrote earlier. I didn't feel the need to condescend. First. I have been using logic for 10yrs on numerous computers, on lots of configurations both with third party and no third party plugins whatsoever, with a bunch of different soundcards. Clean installs, and not so clean installs. No matter, Logic have been crashing all over the place all the time I have used it. Over the years I have grown accustomed to that when a new version comes out, some of the old bugs are eradicated and new bugs are added. The only fairly stable version I've been running was with ProTools TDM hardware. Would that indicate that all other sound card manufacturers suck or that Logic isn't capable of handling native systems? I don't know. (Ok, I haven't tried all sound cards on the market but I have used at least 10 different sound cards, and the crashes kept coming). I have just installed 9.1.6 so I hope to see a lot less of those dead meters. When the digital meters have gone dead, as far as I can tell it's when I've used third party plugins. Plugins that work fine with ProTools, Ableton Live and Studio One, but for some reason not with Logic. Out of the 37 official bugs Apple squashed in the 9.1.6 release, at least 4 could cause Logic to "quit unexpectedly". When the next release comes out, there will be another gang of bugs squashed, some of them causing Logic to "quit unexpectedly". No bugs? You make me laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shivermetimbers Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Pedant time. They are referred to simply as "Level meters." 8) level meter A meter that monitors audio input or output levels to or from your computer. You use the level meters in Logic Pro when recording, arranging, and editing audio files, and when creating a mix. I am used to many quarks that Logic presents and one of them is the response of the (ahem) level meter. When this happens, and if it bothers me enough, I uncheck and check the core audio box in the prefs. Periodically I do experience a loss of sound from any/all audio sources due to the audio interface. A simple toggle of the on/off button seems to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suddenfun Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 You guys are making me think i should have gone Pro Tools...maybe I will for all I have invested... So I have been able to get signal via hardware audio with input monitoring on...but when I hit record it doesn't. It makes a file as it should but with no sound data. The apple guy wants me to remove the RME interface and try to record via the on board mac line in and see if it works. Then he wants me to use the disk utility to repair permissions...then re-install Logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Suddenfun, The advice you are being given to help troubleshoot your problem, makes total sense. I can only suggest you follow that advice and see what happens... Certainly, the fact nothing is actually being recorded is why your Meters didn't show any sign of activity.. and so, like the 'Apple Guy" said.. you need to eliminate various aspects of your setup to help identify the exact cause.. and so using the onboard audio instead of your RME, would be a good step in that direction. Give it a go and see what happens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The apple guy wants me to remove the RME interface and try to record via the on board mac line in and see if it works. That's good advice. Then he wants me to use the disk utility to repair permissions...then re-install Logic. That's crap advice. It's typical Apple "send the customer on a wild goose chase" stuff, especially the part about re-installing Logic. I mean, really now, how would it be that the code for Logic has somehow gone bad that metering works intermittently? That's the kind of advice that might have been applicable back in the Logic 4 days. Just my 2-cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yes.. +1/2 on Ski's comments.. I missed the bit about reinstalling Logic. That makes no sense at all. However, I can sort of see the 'logic' in checking that disk permissions are set correctly as he might be thinking the audio file isn't always able, for whatever reason, to be correctly written to disk.. (if, it turns out it isn't a RME/driver issue that is...) I think, from the sounds of it however, it will turn out to be Audio Interface/drivers/connections issue of some sort.. and I am pretty sure that if you try to use just the built in audio interface, it will work just fine... confirming this diagnosis.. I could be wrong of course.. Time (and a few minutes of testing..) will tell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beej Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Sounds to me more like audio hardware/driver issues, than Logic ones. Clearly, losing audio is a very different thing to what we were talking about, a specific bug in which Logic's channels still pass audio fine, just don't display any level activity. Some troubleshooting should get to the bottom of what's happening with your audio interface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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