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dreadful industry standard!!!


radlid

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Hey guys!

 

So I was at a job interview today and the reason I didn't get the gig was pretty much because I have no experience with; yes that's right Pro Tools!

Now I know I am at the wrong forum for these questions, but maybe I want sympathy :cry: or input from people who use both Logic and Pro Tools.

They said that they wanted to keep me on file incase they need a "Logic" guy or if I happened to learn Pro Tools. The sad thing is that the position was very cool and good doe with alot of potential growth. So as I left I had a thousand questions in my head.

I have some- to a lot of experience with (besides Logic of course) Reason, Ableton Live, Cubase, Cakewalk and Sony Vegas. But all l know about Pro Tools is that almost every goofball out there with Pro Tools don't know that they just have a minimized versions of Pro Tools and not actually the full version. And I also know that Pro Tools is much uglier then Logic. But that's it!

 

So my questions are:

 

1. Can you get a grasp of what Pro Tools really is by purchasing LE or M-powered? Can I work in LE and then be right on the money in HD aswell?

 

2. At what price does HD system start? Can I get used stuff what do I look for cards, firewire?

 

3. What's up with plugs? can I use mine in Pro Tools whats the difference with rtas/tdm?

 

4. Is it a completly different world from Logic? How hard is the transition?

Can I learn it fast? After all they're not hiring me cause I can cut audio files in two, better then anyone else, but rather because what or what I can't do with a mix sonically.

 

Thanks for your time!

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Personally i think you could get a very solid handle on Pro Tools from an LE or M-Powered system. And speaking as someone who works almost entirely in Logic, i think you'll soon find Pro Tools to be an easy to learn and very intuitive DAW platform. As far as MIDI goes, i've yet to see anything as simple as Logic, but as far as audio tracking, mixing and editing goes, Pro Tools is the goods. I work in a studio with a colleague and i compose in Logic, then export the files to Pro Tools for my friend to mix. And i've managed to get a good workable knowledge of Tools just by watching. It 's logical (no pun) and you'll get it quickly and easily. Not suggesting you'll master it overnight, but you'll be able to use the thing effectively in no time
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Sorry to hear about the gig. But, yes..PTools -is- a standard, and, you pretty much HAVE to know it these days (being a Logic pro is an added bonus).

 

Yes...an LE rig (like an MBOX 2 Pro, etc.) will get you 95% there with your PTools chops. If you buy the 'Factory' bundle, you'll get plenty of processing plugins to get started, and Digi is finally shipping with some damn nice SoftSynths (and VERY usable midi capabilities). That's what I have at home ...and I'm VERY fortunate that the studio I freelance for most of the time has a HUGE PTools HD/Icon rig, so I got to learn it on THEIR dime :)

 

Luckily, most 3rd party plugins come with an AU and and RTAS version (both softsynth and processor plugins). And, there's PLENTY of great ProTools training DVD's on the market.

 

With all the experience you already have, I'd bet it would take just a few weeks of hard work to get up to speed in PTools. It's really 'just' another DAW. Just gotta learn it.

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Hey guys!

 

So I was at a job interview today and the reason I didn't get the gig was pretty much because I have no experience with; yes that's right Pro Tools!

Now I know I am at the wrong forum for these questions, but maybe I want sympathy :cry: or input from people who use both Logic and Pro Tools.

They said that they wanted to keep me on file incase they need a "Logic" guy or if I happened to learn Pro Tools. The sad thing is that the position was very cool and good doe with alot of potential growth. So as I left I had a thousand questions in my head.

I have some- to a lot of experience with (besides Logic of course) Reason, Ableton Live, Cubase, Cakewalk and Sony Vegas. But all l know about Pro Tools is that almost every goofball out there with Pro Tools don't know that they just have a minimized versions of Pro Tools and not actually the full version. And I also know that Pro Tools is much uglier then Logic. But that's it!

 

So my questions are:

 

1. Can you get a grasp of what Pro Tools really is by purchasing LE or M-powered? Can I work in LE and then be right on the money in HD aswell?

 

2. At what price does HD system start? Can I get used stuff what do I look for cards, firewire?

 

3. What's up with plugs? can I use mine in Pro Tools whats the difference with rtas/tdm?

 

4. Is it a completly different world from Logic? How hard is the transition?

Can I learn it fast? After all they're not hiring me cause I can cut audio files in two, better then anyone else, but rather because what or what I can't do with a mix sonically.

 

Thanks for your time!

 

Did you know you needed PT before you applied? Ask them (if you wouldn't mind) doing a free intenship where you could learn , but not get paid.

 

What about all the Audio engineers who have no clue how to mix with software. Do you think they will soon be extinct?

 

Don't sit around asking questions in forums...get a copy of any level PT and get busy. You can upgrade as you learn. You won't be mastering PT in two weeks or two months.

 

A client doesn't want to spend megabucs on a production because the engineer is doing 'On the job' training. You may know your way through PT or any other software, but if your employer/client isn't happy with the final mix...

:cry:

 

There are a number of home studios popping up in my town and some are impressive. Some of the studios are making money and are moving on to bigger and better projects. Did you ever consider that possibility?

 

Good luck with your career!

Mark

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what's even scarier is the number of places that want you to be proficient in Final Cut/Photoshop/Flash, etc., AS WELL as being an audio person :(

 

but, you're right..their are PLENTY of us with home studios making a living. I consider myself very lucky in that regard. My clients don't care that I mix their videos here, or compose their music here. Of course, if/when budgets allow, I'm glad to take it to the 'big' studio for larger tracking/mixing/post things.

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I am basicallly a PT guy who has just started learning Logic which is more difficult to learn than PT, trust me. Get yourself an Mbox (mini or pro) and if you have the cash get the 002Rack. Don't buy the PT M-powered because you can't upgrade to the DV Toolkit or Music Production bundles if you so desire later on. Also, check out the grooveboxmusic.com videos on PT, especially the beat detective series although I believe that is also included in EXPLORE PT 7 which may be a better deal for you. When you're done with the videos, get the 'PT 7 Overdrive!' book and you should be up and running after a short time.

As a disclosure, I don't work for none of the people involved in the videos and book.

You can do it :!:

And now, if you don't mind, I'll go back to Mark Sitter videos on the Environment :D

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They will probably need you to know Beat Detective in and out (a drum editor in Protools) but the LE vesrion is not so great as you can only edit one track at a time with BD. You can get the HD version of Beat Detective for LE but have to purchase the Music Production Toolkit for an extra $500. It's worth it though.

 

You can do most all of the other stuff on LE by just getting an M-Box 2 Mini though. It's only $299 or something.

 

Good luck.

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Same thing happended to me about 2 years ago.

Some guy from a big commercial network calls me up, and says he got my name from an old class-mate of mine, who'd claimed I'm really good.

Asks If I can make it next day, for a rather big job; tracking a 50 minute Voice Over for a TV-program, and doing all the post for the program after that.

There are 16 channels of set noise, music, fx and stuff, and its all in .... Pro Tools.

 

Up till then I only had experience in music production in my own studio, in primarily Logic, and some Cubase and Nuendo.

 

So I hear myself saying to the guy that I know ProTools in and out, and I even ask for a (for me at that time...) exorbitant hourly-rate.

As I hang up, my heart's in my throat and my hands are all sweaty, why on earth did I just say what I said. Im not the bragging type! I'm always the shy one in the boyband :-)

So I call my girlfriend and explain the trouble I've gotten myself into. She's laughing and says I'll be ok. "You're on your mac 24/7, just go there tomorrow, and you'll know that protools in an hour".

 

Not an option, I can't have a producer, a director, the voice-talent and who knows who else breathing in my neck while I'm looking for the "record" key-command!

Would it be enough to read some PDF manuals?

I decide not, and rush out to buy an M-box, which is luckily in stock about anywhere but the local grocery market...

 

I start recording editing, mixing and bouncing away, hoping to get some kind of grip on the program before the sun comes up next morning.

 

Now I must admit I hated ProTools even if I had never touched it. I hated the fact that you have to use their hardware (still do!) and most of all, I hated the fact that it's such a standard that people give you strange looks if you say you do all your stuff in Logic.

But, after a few hours, I get the feeling I DO know ProTools in and out. I was expecting a Logic learning curve, but ProTools turned out to be, at least for me, super intuitive.

 

I had been using Logic on a daily basis since version 2.5, and I felt more comfortable with the way Pro Tools handles stuff in ONE evening.

To my brain, it just makes more sense.

1. The audio editing. Enough said about that on the web, do a search :-)

2. The handling of mono-stereo tracks. That part of Logic is a real deal breaker for post...

3. The one on one connection between the edit and the mix-window. So easy. I know, Logic has had the track mixer for a couple of years, but still there's a mess of instruments, audio objects, tracknumbers that don't correspond with object numbers. It just turned out to ble clogging my brain!

4. The zooming. I don't know why or the details, it's just that in Logic I find myself cursing and dragging and not knowing where the hell I am a lot more often than in PT. Even when I'm using all these nifty hidden Logic key-commands...

 

I still love logic, and do all my music-composing with it. At my own studio, I still do all my recording in it, because I really like my ULN-2. But when it's time for mixing... (Somehow it still hurts a bit to say it ;-), I open protools!

 

So, buy an M-Box, you'll have the investment back in a day's work, if you get the gig.

 

And to finish the story; everything was smooth sailing the next day. They were happy, I loved the job, and I still do freelance work there an average 2-3 days a week, and 3 weeks ago they asked me for a full-time position..

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nice story! I remember doing that at a Studio who's only audio tool was an older Avid Audio Vision!!! BS'd my way through THAT session :)

 

And, with PT..there are SOOO many users, that's it's pretty easy to find a good tutor for half a day to take you thru the fundimentals.

 

OH..thanks for the Black Lion info!!! Never heard of them, but they'll be doing my 828MKII and my MBox Pro asap. NICE.

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I am a Pro-Audio Salesperson and I'm asked this question all the time..

Which one is better.. PT vs. everything else

 

In my opinion all DAW apps are pretty close, they all have their strengths..

 

I'm not a PT fan though..

Honestly it's sad that PT is the standard because I think Logic is a much better product. PT's sums audio weird.. The hardware costs waaay tooo much money,

The constant stream of upgrades.. issues... the way it handles MIDI (it's better now).... our display HD system is always crashing/locking up/iLok freezing, etc..

 

I think Apple and Apogee is the better way to go.

As soon as your able to run 3rd party plug-ins on Logic Nodes I think Logic will be the best solution out there.. and it's cheaper to buy a new Mac than an Accel card..

 

Until then we will just have to suck it up since we aren't using the "standard"..[list=]

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I agree mostly.

 

I'll say it again though. I would possibly-maybe dump Protools if Logic comes out with some sort of Beat Detective.

 

Protools is such a good audio editor, but I bet Logic surpasses PT in Logic Pro 8. I sure hope it comes out soon. Logic is light years beyond PT in the MIDI department and in several other areas. "Intuitiveness" and audio editing for Logic just aren't quite as good - Yet.

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It may be an industry standard, but if someone likes your work and your work in X and X can work with whatever they're doing, then I see no reason why it should really matter for everyone. That is not to say it shouldn't matter for some, but it shouldn't matter for all.

 

Heck if you have an M-Audio card, you can pick up PT M-Powered for $299 which is pretty cheap if you ask me and you want to learn it. Even if you don't have an M-Audio card you can buy a used Audiophile really cheap or even a Delta 1010 for very little on ebay.

 

My favourite sequencing app does remain Logic (that's why I'm here right) and if I could use any program for audio editing it would, and will be, Samplitude, and while that will require I run Windows on my Mac, I reboot when I want to dedicate time to Logic so rebooting again won't be such a big issue.

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If you want M-powered PT for cheap, If you live in the U.S. just go to a Guitar Center on the last day of the month and ask for a big discount... They will hook you up. They are paid on commission and it's the last day a salesperson has to add sales onto their paycheck.... works everytime.
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So thanks guys once again for all the respond!

So I have a lo of plugs that are RTAS so I went and just got myself. Mbox 2 Mini. Which is just fine. I was looking to buy something really small for travel anyways.

I have started to mess around in Pro Tools and gotten fairly acquainted with it. I have also watched the CSI video for assistance but I've never liked those video tutorial thingies, but rather like to just learn thru trial and error.

 

I have to say that there is a lot I like about PT and alot I don't like but it is definitely intriguing.

 

Thanks!!!

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