Automation Help

[Samueloscar]

I write a lot of orchestra music with virtual instruments like East West Symphony Gold etc... The problem that I'm having with Logic is how to deal with volume changes on a large scale.

 

-If you automate the track, you can't touch the fader anymore

-If you automate volume in the piano roll, you can't touch the fader anymore either

-Expression doesn't seem designed to really deal with large volume changes, but even if it was, it's a pain to go into the piano roll just to adjust volume

-Velocity has the same issue as the prior one, having to go into the piano roll just to edit volume.

 

If I'm missing something or doing something wrong can somebody please help? This is a huge cramp in workflow.

[ski]

If you automate the track, you can't touch the fader anymore

 

Of course you can, as long as the channel remains in touch or latch

 

If you automate volume in the piano roll, you can't touch the fader anymore either

 

You have to make a decision to automate volume either in track automation or so-called "region based automation" (which is what you are doing when you draw in volume moves in the hyperdraw area of the piano roll). Can't have both. Well, OK, you can, but it causes conflicts. One or the other is the way to go.

 

Expression doesn't seem designed to really deal with large volume changes, but even if it was, it's a pain to go into the piano roll just to adjust volume

 

Whether expression (CC#11) causes only a change in volume, or creates a timbral change in the sound, is entirely dependent on how each individual plugin is programmed. In some cases, adjusting CC#11 will only adjust volume. It's like a secondary volume control on top of CC#7. In such cases you have to make a decision to use either CC#11 for your volume changes, or CC#7 in hyperdraw (piano roll) or channel fader automation (which is also CC#7, but that's a mere technical point).

 

CC#11 and CC#7 volume changes are not additive. If both are at a value of 127 and you lower CC#11 down to 64, it's exactly equivalent to having CC#11 up at 127 and lowering CC#7 to 64.

 

With East/West stuff, CC#11 does volume control only. No timbral shifts as in other instrument plugins. The ONLY difference between CC#11 and CC#7 is that the action, or response, of CC#11 messages is "laggy" compared to CC#7. Now, despite what they tell you in the E/W Play manuals, I suggest that you use CC#7 to control volume. Again, you must choose between writing in CC#7 in hyperdraw (piano roll) or using track automation (which is also CC#7). If you then want to trim down the overall level of a part playing from anything Play-oriented, you can use CC#11 to accomplish that.

 

There are other methods for trimming down the volume of a part that doesn't involve CC#11, and methods for raising the overall volume of a part that's too low as well. But hopefully for now the above will give you some helpful perspective.

[Samueloscar]

Hey thanks for reply. I guess I'm saying I wish there was a way to control the overall DB level of your automation with your fader. If you move the fader 1 db, all of your automation trails move 1db in that track. I'm finding when I'm mixing having to move around automation if quite frustrating. Maybe I'm missing something.

 

My timbre changes are covered with DXF samples and velocity changes, so your saying since CC#7 in EW only does volume, I should use that to do volume swells and everything else? Then i could just leave the expression as the overall fader and adjust that as needed?

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

You do know that you can change the overall volume next to the track header in automation view don't you? The little yellow bar that moves every automation node up or down by the same amount.

 

With groups of instruments, busses, aux channels and sub-mixes can give you various points at which to adjust levels.

 

The Gain plug-in is also a handy way to adjust gain without touching the faders.

[Samueloscar]

I did not know about Command Dragging the yellow bar. Thanks!

[ski]

Hey thanks for reply. I guess I'm saying I wish there was a way to control the overall DB level of your automation with your fader. If you move the fader 1 db, all of your automation trails move 1db in that track. I'm finding when I'm mixing having to move around automation if quite frustrating. Maybe I'm missing something.

 

Choices:

 

• If you use track automation to ride in (or manually write in) volume changes, use the on-screen faders to re-write the automation in that section (just be sure your automation mode is touch so that when you stop re-automating the level returns to where it was. In fact, for most applications I suggest using touch mode. There are exceptions, but for volume? Touch mode.

 

• use the automation select tool to selectively select a selection of automation and move it up and down

 

My timbre changes are covered with DXF samples and velocity changes, so your saying since CC#7 in EW only does volume, I should use that to do volume swells and everything else? Then i could just leave the expression as the overall fader and adjust that as needed?

 

CC#7 adjusts the volume of the instrument channel faders, not Play directly. On the other hand, CC#11 affects volume (only) but the volume adjustment is made within the Play plugin itself.

 

So what I'm saying is that you should use track automation for general volume changes (this is CC#7) and consider using CC#11 as a form of automation "Trim".

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

I did not know about Command Dragging the yellow bar. Thanks!

 

Cool, that should make things easier for you