Censorship

[Scott Jackson]

Censorship

 

I am against it on any level. It's a slippery slope.

 

What do you guys think?

[David Nahmani]

When I started LogicProHelp.com a few years ago, I was dead set against censorship. It used to drive me mad when I saw some forum where I couldn't use the "F" or the "S" words without having the words be censored.

 

Nowadays I'm censoring this forum and and have an automatic censorship filter for S and F words which are no longer allowed here.

 

What happened?

 

The community grew. That's what happened. What was easily manageable with a few hundred members is impossible with 50,000. Everybody has their own definition of what's respectful and what's not - but there are codes we live by in a society, and everybody can at least agree that the F and S words are impolite. We also have to keep an image for our clients and prospective clients. Just last week I had parents bringing me their 12 and 13 year old kids to teach them Logic. If they came to this forum and it was full of S and F words, maybe they'd think twice about giving me their business.

 

There's also Google: Google actually ranks websites lower if it sees a bunch of words that makes it think it's not a serious site, or for example it could be a warez or porn site. The F and S words don't help in that department.

 

So in conclusion, F and S words can hurt my business, and don't bring anything constructive. They're just not needed.

 

As for other forms of censorship, there's also the matter of keeping threads on topic, in the correct forum, constructive, to the point, etc. When a thread about compressor settings evolves into a fight, offensive remarks are made, and everybody starts requesting or suggesting that the forum be changed - that's no longer on point, no longer constructive, and no longer of interest to the community at large. And my only interest here is to keep this forum a quality resource for the entire Logic community - that includes non-members who are googling around and end up reading a thread here on LPH: if they're going to end up on a thread that makes them think nothing constructive around Logic and/or music production is going on here at LPH, then I don't want that thread here on LPH.

 

Also keep in mind that the very reason you like this place, you've spent time here and continue participating and or reading this forum is partly due to our continue organization, thread renaming (you don't know how many threads are posted with titles such as "Question here please?" - which is useless for people browsing a list of titles, and useless to index by our search function or by search engines), thread splitting, moving, and, yes, sorry for the dirty word, censoring what's going too far and is no longer being constructive.

 

On one hand I am open to suggestions and discussing how we could run the forum and what could be improved, on the other hand many of the suggestions often remind me of the "advice" I'm often getting about raising kids by people who've never raised kids. I, too, had different ideas before I started creating a forum. But try and create your own forum, and you'll see, it's not as simple as you may have originally thought to please everyone and keep a quality place run by a community focused on a common interest, and you may have to revisit some of the ideas you felt so strongly about before you created it.

[Scott Jackson]

The members are the forum.

[Beer Moth]

I thought I'd broken it...

[ski]

Oh man, let the whining begin... ??

 

I think David has done a stellar job at managing a difficult but beautiful original concept of "no censorship" on his forum. That curse words are now getting censored? Big f$@%ing deal. Really, let's not be babies about this, calling out onto the carpet the guy who gave us this venue to begin with.

 

Not being able to see curse words isn't censorship. You can still write it, it will just be "masked". Besides, is it not obvious what %@*#$ represents? And is it really such a violation of one's human right to free speech to see curse words transformed into a comical string of characters? Please, this is not a sword to fall on. Besides, it's David's forum, not ours, and I think a show of respect for his wishes is certainly in order. He indulges us by letting us post more or less anything on this forum. Now would be as good a time as any to reciprocate.

 

So, to "censorship" and "slippery slopes" I'd say "stop yer whinin'".

[Scott Jackson]

Oh man, let the whining begin... ??

 

Whining? C'mon ski.

 

This discussion was invited by David himself.

 

To discuss the forum in general, please start a new thread in "The Lounge" - thank you.

 

It's not whining. It's called freedom of expression. And on a site dedicated to art I am quite surprised to hear people fighting for the right to censor. Also, this is not about curse words. I don't recall any cursing in the thread that I linked to that was the latest victim of censorship. Off topic yes, cursing no.

 

Stop whining? Ski, seriously. Why is it whining when some members (including myself) post their opinion and when you post your opinion it apparently is not whining from your viewpoint?

 

I'm starting to think maybe Damon is onto something.

[Beer Moth]

It seems,today,

That all you see,

Is violence in movies

And sex on TV,

But where are those good old fashioned values

On which we used to relyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.............................

[ski]

This discussion was invited by David himself.

 

Scott, you started this thread and invited opinions, I've chimed in with mine. It's just an opinion. Take it or leave it.

 

Everything I've had to say on this subject is in my post above. I don't have anything to add, save for this...

 

Stop whining? Ski, seriously. Why is it whining when some members (including myself) post their opinion and when you post your opinion it apparently is not whining from your viewpoint?

 

Now you're taking things out of context.

 

I likened crying "censorship" on this forum as whining, as in "whining about nothing". Whining about a technical issue regarding Logic is an entirely different subject (and admittedly I do whine about bugs and stuff).

 

Really, and perhaps uncharacteristically for me, I've said all I have to say on this subject of censorship here on LPH.

 

CYA

[Eriksimon]

{...}When a thread about compressor settings evolves into a fight, offensive remarks are made, and everybody starts requesting or suggesting that the forum be changed...

 

Wasn't that just one person...?

 

Something feels odd about all this... is this "damon" some sort of personal friend? To me he seemed "a tad" oversensitive, and I know all about oversensitiveness, so... this all seems like "someone" has successfully manipulated "someone else", possibly without either party noticing...

[rone2him]

"Apple's" Dictionary defines "Censorship" as an official examination that results in the suppression of the unacceptable... David's (and the mod's) scrutinization, of forum content, have always measure up to an acceptable practice, as being reasonable, and satisfactory in my book 8)

 

I tend to agree with some of Damon's nags on what he calls "zombies", especially when their comments push, what i would call trolling, at the borders of useful, helpful, and worthwhile constructiveness, all with, yes, a little good humor added in to boot at times

 

I love this site, and visit it multi-times a day, but there is always that element of subject matter that I choose to ignore (as a form of personel Censorship), and I do just that or else it would get a bit vexing

[Scott Jackson]

Scott, you started this thread and invited opinions, I've chimed in with mine. It's just an opinion. Take it or leave it.

 

I was asking for opinions about censorship, not about me. You say I'm a whiner. Don't care. That's not what I'm interested in.

 

I likened crying "censorship" on this forum as whining, as in "whining about nothing". Whining about a technical issue regarding Logic is an entirely different subject (and admittedly I do whine about bugs and stuff).

 

Whining about nothing?

 

Censorship?

 

Seriously?

 

Wow!

[Beer Moth]

FWIW I'm on David's side.

The man has been so incredibly cool in the past...even in the face of all out war.

And the point he makes about youngsters is a valid one,especially in the context of the purpose of these flora and faunums.

 

 

Minor modal hic.

[Scott Jackson]

I love this site, and visit it multi-times a day, but there is always that element of subject matter that I choose to ignore (as a form of personel Censorship), and I do just that or else it would get a bit vexing

 

That's the most intelligent thing I've read on this thread Ron.

[Scott Jackson]

FWIW I'm on David's side.

 

I'm not choosing sides against David!

 

I respect David and as he stated I wouldn't be here if I did not. But I am choosing sides on the issue of censorship. I understand restricting/removing offensive language (even though in the modern times we live in, offensive language is in many songs, movies and to some extent television programs, all easily accessible to youngsters). But I've seen censorship here that goes beyond foul language. I understand the importance of staying on topic but...

 

The best laid schemes of mice and men go often awry, and leave us nothing but grief ...

[Beer Moth]

The best laid mice.

[rone2him]

I love this site, and visit it multi-times a day, but there is always that element of subject matter that I choose to ignore (as a form of personel Censorship), and I do just that or else it would get a bit vexing

That's the most intelligent thing I've read on this thread Ron.

 

Well yeah we all should intelligently opt for individually choosing (in a perfect world)...

but I still, presently, support the emanation of "official" site administration (seems it's all about endeavoring to "Keep the Peace")

[Scott Jackson]

Well yeah we all should intelligently opt for individually choosing (in a perfect world)...

 

You are living in a perfect world.

 

but I still, presently, support the emanation of "official" site administration (seems it's all about endeavoring to "Keep the Peace")

 

Keeping the peace has nothing to do with ""official" site administration"

 

It has to do with respect.

[ski]

I was asking for opinions about censorship, not about me. You say I'm a whiner. Don't care. That's not what I'm interested in.

 

No, as I see it you were asking for opinion about censorship on THIS forum by linking to a specific thread in your original post. If you wanted to start a discussion on censorship in general then there would have been no reason to link to that thread. Or did you go OT with your own post? (That was a joke, have a laff).

 

I think a more constructive way to go with this subject would be to recognize that many of us have taken this wonderful venue for granted from time to time, and that on the very rare occasion that David pops up and says "enough is enough" that we should take heed. So instead of bellyaching about the almost infinitesimal level to which censorship is exercised here, why don't we use this as an opportunity to thank David for providing us with LPH in the first place, stop yer whinin' , and move on to discussing the one thing we all share common ground with: why our bounces sound too quiet out of Logic.

 

DOH! Sorry, I meant just "Logic".

 

 

Thank you David!

[Nublu]

I went to a movie theatre and really got into the music that was supporting the story. Unconsciously I started "tapping" along. I caught myself twice and on the third time, the gentleman behind me says.... "your're probably a musician. I agree with you, the music is really good. But you are going to keep "tapping". Ahhh! Would you move?"

My wife.. my beloved, the apple of my eye says, "Yah!! fer cryin' out loud. Move!"

I don't get the sense that they were censoring my rights to self-expression.

 

People put on casual clothes - blues jeans, whatever - but generally the preference is that they are clean and fresh.

I have curtailed my foul mouth many times when meeting someone's "Mom". No problem.

To me the subject is basic decorum, not censorship.

 

This site is easy to be involved in.

[shivermetimbers]

... why don't we use this as an opportunity to thank David for providing us with LPH in the first place...

 

I agree Ski.

 

In fact, I stopped praying to God and I now pray to David, thanking him for allowing me to post some of my pointless comments and pictures because someone asks silly questions.

 

If it weren't for this forum, I think my Logic 7 would sitting in a box collecting dust. Most everything I learned was due to members asking questions and I would RTFM for the answer.

 

 

However, this Damon person shows up drunk and frustrated that his G/F (or pet goat) left him for the weekend and vents his personal feelings about me and how the forum needs to be run. That is the point where the drive by post went off topic and technically needed to be moderated. The entire thread should be completely removed IMO.

 

I wasn't offended by any of his remarks, or that the remarks were allowed to remain (prior to deletion), but it took a drawing by Scott and a few comments by me (and maybe the part where damon was telling David how things should be done) to have the thread 'modified.'

 

Not speaking for Scott, but why (rhetorical question) was it alright for damon to bad mouth me, but not alright for me to speak back? Very little of what damon posted was factual and overall he did nothing but side track a pointless thread.

 

Censorship has its place as does moderating a thread to keep it on track.

 

In conclusion, I would like to once again thank David and the moderators for the use of this forum.

 

8)

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

I'm so f$@%ing oblivious that I didn't even f$@%ing notice that my f$@%ing bull[REDACTED - think that's a word to add to your list David!] was being censored! (Testing...)

 

I don't think this has anything to do with censorship. We're in David's house, it's David's rules. If we want to say f*%@ or badmouth people, we can start our own website. Save for legal action, no-one will censor it.

 

David, you really are super-cool with how you run the site, and I can almost feel your pain when we act like dicks and you have to clean up our mess! [like unsavoury and unintentional double-entendres]

 

Apologies and thanks.

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

Oh yeah, and is it just me, or is everyone getting a little touchy of late?

[shivermetimbers]

Oh yeah, and is it just me, or is everyone getting a little touchy of late?

 

It's just you.

 

This has been going on for the longest time.

 

http://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=139120#p139120

[CarlosUnderground]

Shiv: that was funny. Made no sense but, that's what's funny.

Personally, I don't like censorship. I get it, just don't like it. Like Gaga,

Speedos, fried Snikers, ProTools(•___~) or whatever.

 

I'd like to thank David and all mods at LPH for their hard work. There's a reason this is one of

the nets best resources and, I'd never dare to question them. Contrary to what some may think,

we aren't the forum, They are. If not for them, this would well be the coment section on YouTube;

and we all know how that goes.

 

Thanks again David. Respect!

[Scott Jackson]

No, as I see it you were asking for opinion about censorship on THIS forum by linking to a specific thread in your original post. If you wanted to start a discussion on censorship in general then there would have been no reason to link to that thread.

 

Censorship is censorship! On THIS forum, on the radio, on TV, on the internet, or in any other venue.

 

The reason I linked to that particular thread (and there are more than a few censored threads on this forum) is because it was the latest example. And also, as I stated earlier in this thread, there were no F or S words or any other offensive words in that thread. In fact, from my recollection (can't prove anything now, the evidence has been deleted) there wasn't even any name calling going on. Damon had his opinion about shiver and expressed it at length, shiver handled the opinion in a restrained manner (in my opinion). So what. Someone disagrees. Someone doesn't like someone else. Big surprise? No. No big deal.

 

stop yer whinin'

 

Again ski. Stop the name calling. I'm not a "whiner" just because I have an opinion about a subject that you have a different opinion about.

 

And, as I posted already, this is not an attack on David or this site. It's a discussion about censorship. Or at least I hoped it would be.

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

Censorship is censorship! On THIS forum, on the radio, on TV, on the internet, or in any other venue.

 

It's not censorship, it's abiding by the rules of the house, of which we are guests. No-one is stopping you from starting your own website where people can write whatever they like. That's your freedom to choose, just as David has the right to remove writings that do not fit the values with which he started the site, or could harm his livelihood. I don't get how that is either a big deal or any suprise.

 

If I owned a delicatessan and someone came in shouting "f*%@!", I would throw them out. If someone came in asking me about spark plugs, I'd tell them they had the wrong shop. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

[damon]

I agree with the decision.

 

I would only add that, like swear words (which, for the record, I never used in the thread), I think allowing a member (shivermetimbers) to routinely make a sport out of mocking newbies who come here with perfectly reasonable questions, which have perfectly reasonable starting point answers is, too, a bad reflection on the forum and off topic.

 

I don't find it humorous. I find it more akin to bullying.

 

I've heard it said, and agree, that "silence is complicity." In that sense, I remain uninterested in participating in a forum which allows a bully like shivermetimbers to routinely abuse the new kids on the play ground.

[Eriksimon]

I've heard it said, and agree, that "silence is complicity."

 

...

 

I remain uninterested in participating in a forum which allows a bully like shivermetimbers to routinely abuse the new kids on the play ground.

 

I would become uninterested in a forum that would yield to this kind of utterly humorless emotional blackmail cloaked by righteousness and political correctness.

[Scott Jackson]

Since this thread is off topic and therefore against the rules, I must quickly post my final bit of wit to demonstrate my point....

 

....before it gets censored.

 

 

Censoring makes things confusing and misleading.

 

Respect to David.

 

No ill intent.

 

I have my opinion.

 

Everyone else has theirs.

 

How beautifully utopian it would be if we all agreed all of the time.

 

PoliticallyCorrect

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

Since this thread is off topic and therefore against the rules, I must quickly post my final bit of wit to demonstrate my point....

 

....before it gets censored.

 

I think that's a bit churlish.

 

The lounge is where we can talk !%#?.

 

If this discussion was in a thread about compression, then it would be off topic and prove far more confusing to people using the site for help using Logic, and would be rightly deleted.