m.bot Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I have a hard time mixing trying to get my songs clear and loud without clipping..it ends up being soft and any time I try to make louder it clip how do you get your levels up without making it clip...seems like a balancing act. I use compressors and limiters as well as gain and eq are there any tips or guidelines????... here's song of it's an example of what I'm trying to achieve. Making that kick drum and bass levels up without distorting as well as the highs and mids. [soundcloud]http://soundcloud.com/reece-essence-marn/lifes-a-show-prod-by-reecey[/soundcloud] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 There's gazillion threads in this forum about "not loud enough" or "I need it louder without clipping". Do a search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m.bot Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 I did..sooo basically just compression, gain, and limiters...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m.bot Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 What I do is I compress and then eq ad a limiter, then use the gain in the compression plugin to raise the level to make it louder...Does anybody do something different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 If you're using pass filters or boosting/cutting frequencies over 1dB, you will probably be better off placing the EQ before the compressor. Also, try using the gain knob/slider in the lmiter rather than the compressor. Lastly, don't expect your levels to compete with modern commercial releases with just plug-ins. If you really want high quality and loud tracks, pay a professional to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lippeth Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 What I do is throw a limiter in the output channel and turn the dial 'till it says -0.3db and crank it until it's just under zero. You could also bounce the project as an AIFF and open a mastering template on the producer menu when you start a new project, throw it in there and it lays all the other tools out for you too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shivermetimbers Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Revisit your transients and low end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m.bot Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 I want to learn how to do the mixing myself...I don't have money to pay pro for every song I do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m.bot Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 If you're using pass filters or boosting/cutting frequencies over 1dB, you will probably be better off placing the EQ before the compressor. Also, try using the gain knob/slider in the lmiter rather than the compressor. Lastly, don't expect your levels to compete with modern commercial releases with just plug-ins. If you really want high quality and loud tracks, pay a professional to do it. I tried putting the eq before the compressor and it just sounds weird..I'll try to boost the sound by using the limiter....question what's the difference between boosting using the gain in the compressor vs the gain in the limiter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m.bot Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 What I do is throw a limiter in the output channel and turn the dial 'till it says -0.3db and crank it until it's just under zero. You could also bounce the project as an AIFF and open a mastering template on the producer menu when you start a new project, throw it in there and it lays all the other tools out for you too. That's what i did, I put an adaptive limiter in the master and turned the ceiling down all the way to -0.2db, then raise the level of each track as well as the gain in the adaptive limiter in the master... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 What circuit type are you using in the Compressor? The Adaptive Limiter works best within a certain range of input level. Use the input gain knob to make sure you're not clipping on input, then increase the gain to a trade-off point between distortion and perceived loudness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m.bot Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 What circuit type are you using in the Compressor? The Adaptive Limiter works best within a certain range of input level. Use the input gain knob to make sure you're not clipping on input, then increase the gain to a trade-off point between distortion and perceived loudness. It depends for each track but typically I'd just use the Platinum or sometime VCA. For the master I'd just use the multipressor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Ok, multipressor is fine for putting on the output Personally, I'd use VCA for busses, but not to master, too much colour for me. The reason I suggested EQing before compressing is that (especially if you're high-passing) you might be getting the compressor to trigger gain reduction on frequencies that you subsequently take out. I'm not suprised that if you just moved the EQ in front of the compressor without chaning the settings it would sound weird, you would have to EQ differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shivermetimbers Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 What I do is throw a limiter in the output channel and turn the dial 'till it says -0.3db and crank it until it's just under zero. You could also bounce the project as an AIFF and open a mastering template on the producer menu when you start a new project, throw it in there and it lays all the other tools out for you too. There you go, now you can put real mastering engineers out of business with this gem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shivermetimbers Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I have a hard time mixing trying to get my songs clear and loud without clipping. http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/47524_436520038224_6054118_n.jpg I can't imagine why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 What I do is throw a limiter in the output channel and turn the dial 'till it says -0.3db and crank it until it's just under zero. You could also bounce the project as an AIFF and open a mastering template on the producer menu when you start a new project, throw it in there and it lays all the other tools out for you too. There you go, now you can put real mastering engineers out of business with this gem. Have to give shiv credit, he's right on the money here. So let's see...... in order of operations we have: throwing, cranking, choosing some random template or other, and then more throwing. And then, if none of that works, going out into the world to find other tools to (presumably) throw at it. The only things missing here are "care" and "critical listening". I mean, OK, if you're doing this as a hobby then anything goes. But if you're truly after a professional result, your choice of engineering tools to make things sound better (and/or get them to be louder) has to be deliberate. So to the OP's questions... I have a hard time mixing trying to get my songs clear and loud without clipping.. At the very least, if you're clipping at the output, turn down the fader on the stereo output. Pretty simple! However, it's generally not considered good engineering practice to have all of your individual track levels so freekin' hot that you have to reduce the stereo output too terribly much. However, because of the way Logic's audio engine works, you can do this and not sacrifice much (if any) sound quality. Now, there are various factors that might influence whether or not this approach works well for you at the end of the day. For example, if the overall level of your tracks is too freekin' hot and you've had to reduce your stereo output's fader by (say) -10 db, well, that's OK. But you have to keep in mind that that super-hot signal is what's being "received" at the input of the stereo output channel strip itself. Bringing the level down on its fader does nothing to affect that incoming level. It's an output level fader! And if your incoming level is too hot, it's going to affect how well a compressor or limiter will work on that signal (to squash it or make it louder, if that's what you're going for). In a case like this, you will need to put a gain plug into the first slot in the stereo output just to bring the level down so that the compressor or limiter can do its thing. Alternatively, you'll have to bring down the level of all of your tracks individually. Which way is best is beyond the scope of what I have time to share right now. In short, there is no rule that says that the stereo output must remain at zero. It's there for a reason. ....seems like a balancing act... There it is, you nailed it. It's not easy to mix and get everything right (technically and otherwise). HTH... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillo jr Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Kind of depends on what kind of loud you want. Skrillex loud? Nicki loud? Your track sounds pretty loud to me but I think I hear what you mean about "softness" in your mix.... likely because of a lot of energy in the low mids and less so in the higher mids. So that's where the suggestion about EQing before compression or limiting comes into play. You might also play around with some parallel bus compression to fatten things up without knocking the life out of them. It's a good idea to compare the tracks you're trying to emulate by putting them up alongside your own in a logic session and then having a good look at what the spectrums are doing in each song - not just how loud the song is overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m.bot Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 Thanks ski...hopefully this thread and can benefit other users out there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m.bot Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 Kind of depends on what kind of loud you want. Skrillex loud? Nicki loud? Your track sounds pretty loud to me but I think I hear what you mean about "softness" in your mix.... likely because of a lot of energy in the low mids and less so in the higher mids. So that's where the suggestion about EQing before compression or limiting comes into play. You might also play around with some parallel bus compression to fatten things up without knocking the life out of them. It's a good idea to compare the tracks you're trying to emulate by putting them up alongside your own in a logic session and then having a good look at what the spectrums are doing in each song - not just how loud the song is overall. Lol, that track I posted isn't my track...it's an example of what I'm trying to achive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lippeth Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 There you go, now you can put real mastering engineers out of business with this gem. Thanks for being constructive. He asked how to get volume without clipping, and using a limiter gives you volume without clipping. It may not be the most renowned method but it works for a musician wanting to quickly raise the volume of their project so they can post it online and have it sound comparable to other music. If we just hired producers and engineers for all our problems this forum would have no reason to exist. The only things missing here are "care" and "critical listening". I'm sorry I didn't say "carefully place the limiter and listen for when it starts degrading the quality" I use slang, sue me. Everything you said is good advice by the way to eliminate clipping and should be a given, but if you bounce it in that state you'll have to turn up your speakers to hear it, and then go deaf afterward when you put on your favorite Megadeth record. Is using a limiter bad? A limiter and multipress are all I use when I "master" my songs, and no, I don't just 'throw' in the multipress at a random setting. Also let it be known that I'm just a musician, not a producer or engineer and I'm sure I have a lot of bad habits, so I don't mind being put in my place as long as it's constructive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 OK, consider yourself sued, Judge has ruled in my favor, and you're being let off with a warning. This time... Y'know what it is, Lippeth? So many people post advice about putting compressors or limiters on stuff just to make a mix loud, as if loud is all that matters, and without taking into account how those things can change the sound, or how input level is a factor in terms of how they work (if at all). The devil is in the details, and he was tapping me on the shoulder when I read your post and it's, um, lack of devilish details. So there ya go. <--- the Detail Devil Oh, and if I had a favorite Megadeath record, I'd just turn it down on my monitor controller (highly recommended for controlling levels). Or not, if it were, you know, my favorite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lippeth Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Oh, and if I had a favorite Megadeath record, I'd just turn it down on my monitor controller (highly recommended for controlling levels). Or not, if it were, you know, my favorite. First of all, LOL. And to the rest of what you said, fair enough in all regards. I feel like I've come a long way since I started using logic three years ago, although in absolutely no way am I even close to being in a position to give advice, that's why I joined this forum in the first place. I've got to say though that for the first handful of mixes I did and gave out to friends, the most common complaint aside from it being too muddy was "It's not loud enough," so after I addressed the issue of burying bad takes in reverb and chorus as well as wising up and not really using much of anything, I decided to start using a limiter on bounces to increase gain to a comparable level. Sure it degrades and squashes all that hard work I did beforehand, but I still find it clear enough to be enjoyable, and at a competitive volume. Although I could just need a good ear candling. At the end of the day (and I can probably speak for a fair amount of people that use this forum) I'm a musician, and all the music I record is nothing but a portfolio for the songs I've written, not a display of my production skills, although with advice like yours and a few other guys around here, I can hopefully make my performance clearer, and y'know, better. That is the reason I'm here after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 At the end of the day (and I can probably speak for a fair amount of people that use this forum) I'm a musician, and all the music I record is nothing but a portfolio for the songs I've written, not a display of my production skills, although with advice like yours and a few other guys around here, I can hopefully make my performance clearer, and y'know, better. That is the reason I'm here after all. I think that's the only reasonable attitude (because it's the one I have! ), if you're recording with a home setup, you're making demos. If you continually compare your stuff with big expensive commercial releases you're going to be disappointed. But the cool thing is, with practice you can produce something that sounds better than the demos those cheap-ass studios used to offer! If we just hired producers and engineers for all our problems this forum would have no reason to exist. Hey, engineers ask questions too! Some of them are actually people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shivermetimbers Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 He asked how to get volume without clipping, and using a limiter gives you volume without clipping. It may not be the most renowned method but it works for a musician wanting to quickly raise the volume of their project so they can post it online and have it sound comparable to other music. If we just hired producers and engineers for all our problems this forum would have no reason to exist. Well, posting things like using a limiter gives you volume without clipping. would be a perfect reason forums like this cease to exist. You look at me as being rude and sarcastic with my response, but it wasn't intended as a personal attack on you as a human being. There are forums where some top notch producers explain some of the complicated methods for getting a nice mix only to get a response like "Ya, whatever ... so do I set my limiter to -0.3 or what?" Blah, Blah, Blah .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlosUnderground Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I think that before compression and limiting, EQ has to be considered a priority on the stereo bus (not to be confused with first in the chain). It's analyzer is probably our best friend in Logic during mixing and mastering. In my case, I've found that,when I think all sounds good, the analyzer often says:"yeah but, it could be better if..." Getting a nice balance in the frequency spectrum goes a long way towards getting a mix to cut and have clarity. Sure I want a nice level, but I prefer clarity and dynamic range. BTW, I've grown to hate the mastering job on Skrillex' stuff. Loud as fuq, but kinda flat to my ears. Just my opinion FWIW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I've actually moved away from using EQ for mastering my demos. Sometimes I'll add a bit of air to the side channel, but otherwise I'll try to get my frequency content sorted in the mix. If my RMS levels are showing around -15dBFS to -10dBFS during the loudest parts, I'm happy. Oh, and I prefer the Multimeter for assessing frequency content on my output. Suits my eyes better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlosUnderground Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Oh no, nothing surgical with the EQ on the output, more for analysis really. I've grown used to the Channel EQ, and trust it as a meter for help on zoning in on what usually sounds good with certain sound palates I often use. I've just started to experiment with the Multipressor so, gots some homework for a while. Maybe I'll start a thread on compression. Haven't seen one of those around here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Maybe I'll start a thread on compression. Haven't seen one of those around here! Don't forget your to put on your asbestos underwear first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlosUnderground Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 lol BTW Rev., Zappa doesn't smell funny, he's just Fonkaaay! Like a Zombie Woof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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