Switching from Cubase 5 (?) Any former Cubase users?

[jeffhefty]

HI , I have been a Mac user for the past 6 years and have progressively become more and more enamored with Apple products. I recently have learned about Logic Pro 9 being available from the app store.

 

I was wondering if there is anybody on this forum that has used Cubase before and why they may have switched to Logic? And if so, can you kindly let me know what you like about Logic?

 

I am currently downloading a Cubase 6 demo (Cubase 5 no longer works with Lion). The file is 2.1 gigs. Logic is only 412 mbs. I know this is a dumb question, but why such a big difference in file size? Is Cubase 6 that much richer in what it offers??

 

Also, I have become annoyed with Steinberg/Cubase for making it SO difficult to upgrade. I currently live overseas in a country where I have to purchase the upgrade through a Yamaha dealer. I can't wait to see how much they charge me. The upgrade from Cubase 5 to 6.5 is $200 (the price of Logic Pro).

 

In any case, thanks for your insight and help.

Jeff

[triplets]

I was a Cubase user.

Never liked the user interface.

I didn't like the channel strip setup and once I saw the Logic one, I hated it even more. The bus sends in cubase especially.

Then when I saw all the sounds that came with Logic, around 30 gigs, I switched and never looked back.

Besides the fact that the Steinberg drivers were flaky also.

[Mr. V]

Hi Jeff,

I still have C6.5 and like much about it: audio editing, built-in pitch correction, multi-controller lane below the key editor, and built-in Appearance preference.

 

The benefits of Logic:

- Powerful Score editor (I'm guessing better that the one in Cubase)

- Legendary CPU efficiency!

- Flex editing for audio

- Tab to Transient for editing audio

- A powerful, multi-faceted Marquee tool for editing

- Powerful and easy to use MIDI editing tools and functions (best I've used in any DAW)

- If you were starting off fresh with no other processors or software instruments, then an argument could be legitimately made that Logic provides everything you'll need to make music. The EXS24 acoustic pianos, electric and acoustic basses, drums, and orchestral sounds are quite good!

- The Channel EQ has a built-in frequency analyzer.

- The Transport bar has a built-in MIDI monitor for pitch, velocity, controller number, even chords.

- Amp Designer amp sim

- Space Designer, the convolution reverb even includes Speaker IR which works great with the above amp sim. Choose Direct for Cabinet, then insert SD. Load one of the Speaker IR (of course save it as a preset) and you'll have a more realistic sounding amped guitar sound

- The EVB3 organ instrument remains one of the best available!

- A Notes tab (for text) the full vertical length of the consolidated window. You can choose which font, as well as bold and regular. Pasted text that includes underlining is preserved

- Easy to use Global tracks for tempo, time sig, and key.

- Big Markers on which you could enter lyrics or other pertinent text.

- The capability of bouncing into several audio formats at the same time: PCM (aiff, WAV, CAF etc), MP3, AAC etc

- Up to 99 screen sets

- The supplied Channel Strip settings are really quite a good place to start and may only need threshold or output adjustments.

- A wide variety of loops covering many musical genres for drums, percussions (which I use) and instruments (which I don't use except to study how controllers were applied )

 

The loops & EXS 24 instruments are a separate download which explains the size discrepancy.

 

 

Happy decision making.

[jeffhefty]

I was a Cubase user.

Never liked the user interface.

I didn't like the channel strip setup and once I saw the Logic one, I hated it even more. The bus sends in cubase especially.

Then when I saw all the sounds that came with Logic, around 30 gigs, I switched and never looked back.

Besides the fact that the Steinberg drivers were flaky also.

 

 

Hi Triplets, regarding the 30 gigs of sounds, I must have things confused. The App store is selling Logic 9 and the download says 450 mb , I think. So what you are referring to must be a boxed version, no? Can you explain?

thanks Jeff

[jeffhefty]

Hi Jeff,

I still have C6.5 and like much about it: audio editing, built-in pitch correction, multi-controller lane below the key editor, and built-in Appearance preference.

 

The benefits of Logic:

- Powerful Score editor (I'm guessing better that the one in Cubase)

- Legendary CPU efficiency!

- Flex editing for audio

- Tab to Transient for editing audio

- A powerful, multi-faceted Marquee tool for editing

- Powerful and easy to use MIDI editing tools and functions (best I've used in any DAW)

- If you were starting off fresh with no other processors or software instruments, then an argument could be legitimately made that Logic provides everything you'll need to make music. The EXS24 acoustic pianos, electric and acoustic basses, drums, and orchestral sounds are quite good!

- The Channel EQ has a built-in frequency analyzer.

- The Transport bar has a built-in MIDI monitor for pitch, velocity, controller number, even chords.

- Amp Designer amp sim

- Space Designer, the convolution reverb even includes Speaker IR which works great with the above amp sim. Choose Direct for Cabinet, then insert SD. Load one of the Speaker IR (of course save it as a preset) and you'll have a more realistic sounding amped guitar sound

- The EVB3 organ instrument remains one of the best available!

- A Notes tab (for text) the full vertical length of the consolidated window. You can choose which font, as well as bold and regular. Pasted text that includes underlining is preserved

- Easy to use Global tracks for tempo, time sig, and key.

- Big Markers on which you could enter lyrics or other pertinent text.

- The capability of bouncing into several audio formats at the same time: PCM (aiff, WAV, CAF etc), MP3, AAC etc

- Up to 99 screen sets

- The supplied Channel Strip settings are really quite a good place to start and may only need threshold or output adjustments.

- A wide variety of loops covering many musical genres for drums, percussions (which I use) and instruments (which I don't use except to study how controllers were applied )

 

The loops & EXS 24 instruments are a separate download which explains the size discrepancy.

 

 

Happy decision making.

 

Hi Mr. V, first off thanks for taking the time to relay all that info.

So the last comment regarding the loops and ExS 24 being a separate download, do they cost extra? If I download the App for $199 am I looking at more costs?

 

If it does cost more is there a cross-grade price?

 

ANd I use a lot of EastWest Quantum Leap products. Are they compatible with Logic 9?

 

Also , I just bought a Macbook Pro 2.3 Ghz Intel Core i7 with 16 gig of ram. Will Logic 9 run smoothly with this Macbook?

 

Lastly , is there an ibook or guide for learning the software?

 

Many Many Thanks! Jeff

[MrKat]

I was a cubase user too... bought a new mac, and the version of cubase wouldnt work with the new mac, so the guys at digital village told me to try Logic

 

As I just starting out, I thought Id try it out... and I hated Logic 5.... REALLY hated it!

 

But it slowly grew on me... I went back to cubase in another studio and realized how good I had it with Logic...

 

If you get Logic, stick with it... you WILL grow to love it!

[Mr. V]

No extra cost!

Don't know much about the download as I own the boxed version.

Here's a link. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3583364?start=0&tstart=0

Google Download Additional Logic Pro Content or similar.

 

Google about EW QLand Logic. I've never used their stuff. Many Logic users do.

 

Logic runs very smooth on my 2010 i5 MBP with 8 GB of RAM.

 

David Nahmani runs LogicPro Help.

Buy his book. It's linked on the home page. It's the official Apple Pro book and an absolutely essential way for a beginner to learn Logic.

http://logicprohelp.com

 

The second Apple Pro book is also highly recommended:

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Pro-Training-Advanced-Production/dp/0321647459/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1345152399&sr=1-2&keywords=logic+pro

 

Both come in Kindle version. Don't own a Kindle? Download the Kindle For Mac.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=kcp_mac_mkt_lnd?docId=1000464931

[jeffhefty]

Thank you!!

[hungrydave]

Hi jeffhefty.

I just recently (2months ago) switched from PC&Cubase to Mac&logic. I'm not a sound editing bod all that much, i'm more of a musician/producer - my music partner does more of the sound editing/mixing etc. Bearing that in mind, here's my thoughts.

 

From my overall experience so far i'm finding logic better. It's a lot quicker to get ideas down that sound good, i could make stuff sound good in cubase, but it would take longer and ruin the creative flow. My music partner still prefers cubase for editing waves, he thinks it's better when you want that extra detail, i can't really speak for this.

 

I've tried to learn the logic key commands, I didn't want to go with cubase KC's completely because i work in other studio's and didn't want to be paralysed. However, there's a few things i've had to put in (1 to cycle bar 1, * to record etc). I reccomend you try and get by on the logic KC's as much as possible for the reasons above.

 

Things i like about logic.

 

Flex editing audio

Channel strips settings

The environment window

the instruments

the score editor (the one in logic is actually useful - the cubase one was so bad i never used it)

 

Things i miss about cubase

The MIDI plug ins (yes a lot of this can be done in environment, but not so quickly and easily, and some things can't be done at all)

A few of the 3rd party plugs i used to use, but this can't really be credited to cubs

I would say the logic built in plugs aren't quite as good as you may have heard, some of them are truly excellent like reverb, compress, but i don't like the flange/phase at all, and some of the instrument don't have much in the way of a modulation matrix

Can't think of much else....

 

 

Because i used cubase for almost 20 years, i've approached logic trying to do things with a 'cubase mentality'. You'll probably be the same, so if i can help at all with anything, please ask, it'd be nice to be able to help someone on this forum not just ask questions the whole time

Dave

[CarlosUnderground]

I have used a couple of DAWs including Cube, PT, FL, Audition, Cool Edit(wooo).

I've stuck with Logic9 because it doesn't get in the way of composition. Just this

Sunday, I went to a friends house and, within three hours, we had Three songs

done. Arrangement, vocals, drums (midi), guitars, bass and keys. He had never

seen Logic, always PT or FL, so he was really impressed by my recording "skill".

Within an hour after, I had Him working Logic by himself. If all you want is tracking,

Nothing can beat it(hehe). But, it's also incredibly deep. So much so that, I've even

seen David learn a thing or two here. I think of Logic as the musicians DAW.

In fact, you'd be surprised how many top tier artists use Logic as their composition

tool. I wouldn't want to play in another sandbox. It's such Fun and, sounds amazing

(Logics plugs and instruments are truly top notch. More so when you factor in

the price to quantity ratio. I think it's something like $5 per plugin).

[triplets]

I was a Cubase user.

Never liked the user interface.

I didn't like the channel strip setup and once I saw the Logic one, I hated it even more. The bus sends in cubase especially.

Then when I saw all the sounds that came with Logic, around 30 gigs, I switched and never looked back.

Besides the fact that the Steinberg drivers were flaky also.

 

 

Hi Triplets, regarding the 30 gigs of sounds, I must have things confused. The App store is selling Logic 9 and the download says 450 mb , I think. So what you are referring to must be a boxed version, no? Can you explain?

thanks Jeff

 

The 30 gigs is called "Additional Download" once you buy the app.

The boxed version had 49 gigs.

[Psynthetik]

I also just made the switch over to mac and started using logic due to working on tracks with friends who use it and there are lots of things I really like. I love the built in instruments and the compare feature for VST's is awesome. ESX is alot better than groove agent and ultrabeat is pretty cool too. Bouncing audio is alot more convenient as well. Audio editing on the other hand, cubase is WAY better imo. Also, I find cubase alot better for general workflow but thats just me. Im really hoping Logic 10 (X) comes out soon, although it seems highly unlikely, cause there is lots I like about logic but I still find myself going back to cubase for lots of things that are just alot easier for me. Cubase 6.5 looks awesome so time will tell

 

edit: cubase 5 is working perfectly on lion/mountain lion

[DaveyBee]

Hallo Jeff,

 

not that it will help very much but i was a cubase user in the 90's and early 00's. then stopped recording for a while and got back to it about 3 years ago when i got an imac. i've been using Logic since then and absolutely would not go back. I know i'm comparing oranges and apples because cubase in the 90's is obviously going to be poor compared to Logic now. but i love logic - it's so quick to get ideas down, the channel strip settings are great, the bundled software is superb etc etc (all been said before). i dont use the apple loops at all and found the additional content a bit of a waste of space but thats just down to the way i use logic (generally for tracking guitars, bass, drums from kontakt, vocals, keyboards etc).

 

One last thing - the general consensus is that with the way Apple are now using the app store the next version of logic will be a flat fee of 199 or thereabouts and wont be available as an upgrade - so is now the right time to buy logic 9? Its all conjecture of course but something to bear in mind.

 

Cheers

David.

[jeffhefty]

I also just made the switch over to mac and started using logic due to working on tracks with friends who use it and there are lots of things I really like. I love the built in instruments and the compare feature for VST's is awesome. ESX is alot better than groove agent and ultrabeat is pretty cool too. Bouncing audio is alot more convenient as well. Audio editing on the other hand, cubase is WAY better imo. Also, I find cubase alot better for general workflow but thats just me. Im really hoping Logic 10 (X) comes out soon, although it seems highly unlikely, cause there is lots I like about logic but I still find myself going back to cubase for lots of things that are just alot easier for me. Cubase 6.5 looks awesome so time will tell

 

edit: cubase 5 is working perfectly on lion/mountain lion

 

Hi Psynthetik, you say Cubase 5 is working for you. But on my new Macbook , it doesn't work. I'm running OSX 10.7.4. Not sure why it doesn't work. You got any ideas? It just freezes up when I open it. ANd if very slow to open a new project.

 

Thanks for you input on all this.

Jeff

[jeffhefty]

Hi jeffhefty.

I just recently (2months ago) switched from PC&Cubase to Mac&logic. I'm not a sound editing bod all that much, i'm more of a musician/producer - my music partner does more of the sound editing/mixing etc. Bearing that in mind, here's my thoughts.

 

From my overall experience so far i'm finding logic better. It's a lot quicker to get ideas down that sound good, i could make stuff sound good in cubase, but it would take longer and ruin the creative flow. My music partner still prefers cubase for editing waves, he thinks it's better when you want that extra detail, i can't really speak for this.

 

I've tried to learn the logic key commands, I didn't want to go with cubase KC's completely because i work in other studio's and didn't want to be paralysed. However, there's a few things i've had to put in (1 to cycle bar 1, * to record etc). I reccomend you try and get by on the logic KC's as much as possible for the reasons above.

 

Things i like about logic.

 

Flex editing audio

Channel strips settings

The environment window

the instruments

the score editor (the one in logic is actually useful - the cubase one was so bad i never used it)

 

Things i miss about cubase

The MIDI plug ins (yes a lot of this can be done in environment, but not so quickly and easily, and some things can't be done at all)

A few of the 3rd party plugs i used to use, but this can't really be credited to cubs

I would say the logic built in plugs aren't quite as good as you may have heard, some of them are truly excellent like reverb, compress, but i don't like the flange/phase at all, and some of the instrument don't have much in the way of a modulation matrix

Can't think of much else....

 

 

Because i used cubase for almost 20 years, i've approached logic trying to do things with a 'cubase mentality'. You'll probably be the same, so if i can help at all with anything, please ask, it'd be nice to be able to help someone on this forum not just ask questions the whole time

Dave

 

Hi Dave and thank you for chiming in on this.

 

I use Cubase mostly with East/West Quantum Leap products and Omnisphere. (I forgot to ask about whether Logic works with Omnisphere. ) I seem to use Omnisphere a lot.

 

I also was using Groove Agent a lot in Cubase. Does Logic have anything like Groove agent?

I have Halion 3 but don't use it much since I got the likes of East/West.

I heard something like Steinberg is phasing out GA and Halion. Which if true I find disappointing. Maybe I'm incorrect on this fact.

 

I don't do much live acoustic music at all , but I'm sure Logic would be good enough for that.

 

One issue I have is that I'm giving my Old Macbook to my niece. So I have to get rid of it and use my New Macbook for any composing I may do. The problem is that Cubase 5 does not work on my new Macbook. At least not for me.

 

Thanks Jeff

[Eric Cardenas]

East/West, Spectrasonics and ALL major virtual instrument and plug-in makers support the Audio Unit protocol that OS X and Logic uses.

There isn't anything exactly like Groove Agent in Logic but you'll get Ultrabeat that is an amazing drum machine synth.

[jeffhefty]

OK Thanks Eric

[Eric Cardenas]

You're welcome.

[hungrydave]

hello again jeff.

 

It sounds like you use a lot of third party. I was the same on cubase. When i switched to logic i made a new resolution to only use the logic plugs until i'd exhausted them and was sure i needed something else.

 

The reason for this was that i got all nostalgic for the days of hardware when we used to actually completely master instruments. I don't think there was a function on the Akai S3000 that i hadn't completely understood by the time i sold it. Same applies to the synths and effects i had. Likewise when I did a music technology BTEC many moons ago, there were some macs which used some roland hardware that had to be completely controlled by MIDI. It forced me to really explore MIDI messages.

 

Cubase (from the first audio versions that appeared) for me just gradually turned more and more into preset bashing VST's and became less and less fulfilling. There's so many free/cheap VST's i had too many. When i decided to switch to logic (and i'd heard the logic plugs were great - which they mostly are) i made my vow . I'm looking forward to seeing how the EXS24 holds up when i get started on some electronic production stuff (since getting logic i've been doing greek music for a documentary which is nearly all recording based so i've hardly used it so far).

 

Anyway, i'm not trying to tell u how to work, i know people have different methods that work for them... Just telling the story of my transition.

 

I think you should make the plunge. I'll be very surprised if you regret it, and this forum is great for getting you moving.

 

best

[Psynthetik]

Hey Jeff,

Maybe cubase not working is like some have said that its third party vst's causing the crash. From the first time I installed cubase on both my mac book and the iMac at home its run smooth every time and haven't had a single crash in over 6 months. Maybe I just got lucky tho.

[jeffhefty]

hello again jeff.

 

It sounds like you use a lot of third party. I was the same on cubase. When i switched to logic i made a new resolution to only use the logic plugs until i'd exhausted them and was sure i needed something else.

 

The reason for this was that i got all nostalgic for the days of hardware when we used to actually completely master instruments. I don't think there was a function on the Akai S3000 that i hadn't completely understood by the time i sold it. Same applies to the synths and effects i had. Likewise when I did a music technology BTEC many moons ago, there were some macs which used some roland hardware that had to be completely controlled by MIDI. It forced me to really explore MIDI messages.

 

Cubase (from the first audio versions that appeared) for me just gradually turned more and more into preset bashing VST's and became less and less fulfilling. There's so many free/cheap VST's i had too many. When i decided to switch to logic (and i'd heard the logic plugs were great - which they mostly are) i made my vow . I'm looking forward to seeing how the EXS24 holds up when i get started on some electronic production stuff (since getting logic i've been doing greek music for a documentary which is nearly all recording based so i've hardly used it so far).

 

Anyway, i'm not trying to tell u how to work, i know people have different methods that work for them... Just telling the story of my transition.

 

I think you should make the plunge. I'll be very surprised if you regret it, and this forum is great for getting you moving.

 

best

 

Hi HungryDave, I am basically a newcomer to electronic music compared to you. I started back in 2001-2. I don't do much if any programming. I just like to use most instruments as they are without any changes. I would like to do more programming, but it takes time. One thing I think I will miss about Cubase is Groove agent 3. Is the EXS24 anything like it?

Thanks Jeff

[jeffhefty]

Hi Psynthetik , I went to the Steinberg site and did what they suggested but it still doesn't work. How do I remove the Power PC vst instruments? Got any idea?

 

Thanks Jeff

[hungrydave]

Hi HungryDave, I am basically a newcomer to electronic music compared to you. I started back in 2001-2. I don't do much if any programming. I just like to use most instruments as they are without any changes. I would like to do more programming, but it takes time. One thing I think I will miss about Cubase is Groove agent 3. Is the EXS24 anything like it?

Thanks Jeff

 

No. EXS24 is a large multi-sampler more like Halion or Kontakt. As someone else said, the closest thing from the logic built in plugs is probably ultrabeat, which is a drum machine/sampler. I haven't really used ultrabeat and i never used groove agent, but i've just had a look at both.

 

Bearing in mind i just scanned them briefly, i'd say Ultrabeat has more depth for editing, but groove agent seems to be more preset oriented.

Ultrabeat can store patterns, but doesn't seem to have many preset patterns like GA does. However, assuming GA can move patterns to cubase arrange window, it would be very simple for you to export the grooves you particularly like as MIDI files. Ultrabeat can't import MIDI, but you could put the MIDI into logic and use it to trigger ultrabeat. Of course that would only give you the MIDI sequence not the actual sounds from GA. You could transfer the sounds and remake the kits in UB but i'm not going to get into that here.

 

I guess it depends how many different patterns you use in GA. You said you're mostly preset based. If you have say 3-4 patterns that you regularly use in GA then it wouldn't be that big a deal to transfer. However, if you use loads of different edited patterns and such, it could be a few days work

 

If you were serious about doing that, i'd recommend a new thread and we could talk about options for moving the samples into UB and suchlike.

 

[jeffhefty]

Hi HungryDave, I never thought of exporting the grooves. I would hate to just abandon Groove Agent. I am currently trying to get Cubase 5 to work. I have deleted all or most of my Power PC Vst's. I haven't had a chance to try it yet. Many of them I didn't use much anyhow.

 

I have to admit that I am feeling a bit of "separation anxiety" about chucking Cubase for good. But I have come to really like mac-based products. Mac's aren't perfect , but I have to admit that the people that create these various software platforms are smart, creative people. So I don't think I could go wrong in the end if I do go with Logic on a permanent basis.

 

Thanks again, Jeff