Paul FM Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Hi All Probably not the first time its sprung up, im looking into the possibility of either, more towards Mainstage because of the GUI, would it be suitable for ambient/experimental sound art? triggering loops in time, manipulating effects on the fly? Im kinda guessing the obvious answer is Yes but if anyone performs this style of music/art live then I'd gladly appreciate the heads-up. Ta P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlosUnderground Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Ableton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmm42 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Ableton. Sure, $700 compared to $30, no question you first spend $700 for Ableton Studio... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlosUnderground Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Hey, he asked. lol It's doable with MS, just alot more prep work and bullet proofing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mididiot Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I have them both. I gig with Ableton. I keep trying to use Mainstage for gigs. I finally got backup drum tracks going fine in MS. Very basic in MS(cpu heavier). It's just been easier to hit the ground running with Live. I've got 250 songs loaded for my gigs on launch in Live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TREATMENT Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I use both. Mainstage requires a lot of prep work. If you want loops to play in time, you have to run your loops through Apple Loop Utility first. Compare: In Ableton, you have to make sure the warp markers are correct for every loop you bring in. In the end, I'd say the prep work for preparing loops is about the same. What I dig about MS, is that I can create what I want to see on the screen. Ableton is super cluttered as far as the GUI goes. In Ableton, you have to scroll all the time to find that clip. You are always staring at a "mixing board" full of knobs buttons and clips. In MS, you can put the clips on the screen however you like, and as many as you like. Positives about Abelton: 1.You have a timeline. You can plan ahead, and drag clips into the timeline to happen within the next few bars, or the next ten minutes if you like. MS has no timeline, just a clock that keeps ticking. As far as improvising goes, I really appreciate that MS has no timeline. 2. You can record everything you do, including automation moves. The entire performance can be rendered to disk. 3. Arranging clips into a song is dead easy in Ableton. Riff A goes for this many bars, then Riff B plays for so many bars etc. Ableton is fantastic as an arranging tool, because everything is always in sync. 4. Ableton comes with a massive sample, and instrument library. If you want to create a drum beat really quickly and add a bass line, you can very quickly and easily drag and drop. MS/Logic has Garageband loops that you can import and do the same thing, and those loops have already been prepared by Apple Loop Utility, so no need to worry about sync. 5. MS beats Ableton every time when it comes to mapping controllers. If you want your Korg synth to be mapped to such and such functions in ABleton for Song A, and then have different mapping settings for song B, you have to open a new project. In Mainstage, you have a folder heirchy, so no need to close the project, just hit the Up Down arrow keys to go from song to song, and your setup will automatically switch to your chosen assignments. For my stuff this is absolutely KEY, and the absolute MAIN reason why I use MS for live shows and not Ableton. 6. VIdeo: Ableton can trigger/loop/play video files. MS cannot do this without the help of another software program. I also use video projection with MS, and this has been an absolute nightmare trying to get video to sync with audio loops. Let's see.... How about price? For $500 you get MS, and you also get Logic. Logic is a professional DAW, that you can use to record proper bands. Ableton is NOT a proper DAW, and I roll my eyes at ANYONE who tries to mic up a drumset, a guitar amp, a piano, a bass, and record everything into Ableton. Wrong tool for the job. Plug ins: Abletons plug ins are kind of like guitar pedals: Easy to use, and simple. MS uses the same plug ins as Logic, which are professional plug-ins that are built for production and mixing. BOTH platforms use VST/AU etc plugins, so whatever you have installed you can use in both. But if you have no plug ins whatsoever, you will have a much more powerful and useful set of plug ins with Logic than with Ableton. For the guitar players out there, Logic/MS comes with an AWESOME set of cabinets, and guitar amps. If you want to play guitar in Ableton, you're going to need purchase GuitarRig, or some other 3rd party package. If I think of anything else I'll add it to this post. Treatment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 How about price? For $500 you get MS, and you also get Logic. Just wanted to correct the pricing. MainStage 2 can now be bought as a separate application for only $30. Logic Pro 9 is $199. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TREATMENT Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Holy F'n sh1t! I had no idea! Thanks for that info!! Treatment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul FM Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 does touch tracks still work OK in the latest version of Logic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenRicoMusic Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 There are new videos up at the MacProVideo.com site showing Mainstage 2.2 being used in a performance setting. These videos have restored my confidence in using Mainstage not just with live bands, but also along side a DJ, OR by myself as a "One Man Band". I've been playing keyboards my whole life, but i've mostly played with an ensemble, live bands, etc... and a couple of those bands have used click tracks via the drummer keeping the band in time, while performing along with tracks. Now that I'm getting into performing by myself, I've had trouble deciding whether or not to continue with Mainstage, or venture into learning Ableton Live. Up until recently Ableton seemed the way to go, with lots more tutorial/video material to learn from on the internet... but with the most recent update for Mainstage (2.2), and the video tutorials at MacProVideo, my decision to stick with Mainstage is gaining steam. Mainstage vs Ableton is a tough one to answer. Each artist uses their rig for different reasons. Since I am more of an old-school keyboardist from the Analog days, and i'm just now comfortable with programming and using Midi Controllers with Mainstage 2.2, I might stick with Mainstage, and use Ableton as a slave to perform with my DJ partner and let him control it. Otherwise, my confidence remains with Logic and Mainstage for production and live performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenRicoMusic Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I thought I'd bump this topic, and see if anyone has a new opinion, and or feedback on using Mainstage and/or Ableton 8/9 for live performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TREATMENT Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 BenRicoMusic I just want to say, that the learning curve for Ableton is not very steep. You're a keyboard guy, and trust me the learning curve for a new synthesizer is far more daunting. I found Mainstage relatively easy to learn, although like any software, there are always things that you figure out later. I think this is part of Ableton's success is that it IS easy to learn, and musicians who are new to making music with a computer, this is a great choice. I've got a gig coming up...a dance event where I am playing pop songs for a large group of children. It is a million times easier to use Ableton for this, than Mainstage, because I have over 300 songs, and I don't even know half of these songs! PM me, and I'll point you in the direction of some FANTASTIC Mainstage tutorials. Treatment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCTMusic Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Hi I'll point you in the direction of some FANTASTIC Mainstage tutorials. t Care to share this info here... or via PM? CCT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TREATMENT Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 CCTMusic ! I remember you, send me an email: androidmedia@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Hey TREATMENT, feel free to share the MainStage tutorials here, I'm sure many here would love to know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TREATMENT Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Sure, MacProvideo,com, called "Core Masinstage2, by Bill Burgess. This got me up and running with MS in a about a month, and I still refer back to it, when I need to remind myself how to do something. Excellent tutorial. Treatment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCTMusic Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Hi MacProvideo,com, called "Core Masinstage2, by Bill Burgess. Thanks I found them disappointing... could just be me? CCT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TREATMENT Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Te each his own. This tutorial got me up and running, and I still refer back to it on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outjet Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 I use Mainstage (2.2) as my live rig, and have been very pleased! I think it depends a lot on your needs -- for me, I play about everything in real time, so there's not much benefit I'd get from the looping or backing tracks. My main need was for something that would let me line up songs in a row, layer sounds with different mappings for each song, re-map controllers on a song-by-song basis, etc. I've been using it for a couple years and it's been real solid and has done everything I've needed it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiphones Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 I find the controller routing in MS fantastic, you can do almost anything imaginable with controllers and setting it up is really easy. There is a learning curve with MS that's true. But what I love is you can design a really complex custom rig and hid that behind a really clean GUI where you decide exactly what you want to see on screen during a performance. For example, I might have a single controller pedal controlling 10 different parameters in 6 different plugins at the same time, and that's real easy to set up. The looping is not great compared to its competitors. I've spent a good deal of time with the loopback plugin and it leaves a lot to be desired. Its unclear exactly what all the controls do and how they interact with other loop back instances. I've read many a tutorial on looping with MS, spent serious time with it and still been unable to get two or three independent loopers working together in a logical way without having to sync to a tempo. If you like to create loops without a playing to an existing loop (as a way of knowing the tempo) you're out of luck with MS. You can do it, but its extremely glitchy and exhibits outright inconstant behaviour with certain configurations. In short, the live looping is not up to standard. Maybe this has been fixed in MS 3 I don't know, I'm still on 2.2 There is a bug in MS 2.2 with the Scale Parameter graph interface on my MBP retina display, its basically broken. But perhaps this is fixed in MS 3. Apart from these two things MS is amazing from my point of view, I depend on it for my live and recording setups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCTMusic Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Hi You can do it, but its extremely glitchy and exhibits outright inconstant behaviour with certain configurations. In short, the live looping is not up to standard. Maybe this has been fixed in MS 3 I don't know, I'm still on 2.2 preliminary tests suggest that MS 3 is a load better in the LoopBack department CCT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TREATMENT Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Antiphones: " If you like to create loops without a playing to an existing loop (as a way of knowing the tempo) you're out of luck with MS." I have not at all had a problem with this, so to say a person is "out of luck" is not true. I will agree, the deeper and more complex your MS projects get, yes indeed, the the more "crash-prone" MS becomes. Pretty much like MOST software. " Its unclear exactly what all the controls do and how they interact with other loop back instances. " Such as.....?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiphones Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Antiphones:" If you like to create loops without a playing to an existing loop (as a way of knowing the tempo) you're out of luck with MS." I have not at all had a problem with this, so to say a person is "out of luck" is not true. I will agree, the deeper and more complex your MS projects get, yes indeed, the the more "crash-prone" MS becomes. Pretty much like MOST software. " Its unclear exactly what all the controls do and how they interact with other loop back instances. " Such as.....?? There are numerous threads about loopback's problems, some going several pages with people going into great detail, with much advice given etc... I can't go into it all. The end result of these discussions is inevitably people hitting brick walls trying to get various things to work with loop back unsuccessfully and other chiming in saying Ableton or Mobius can do it easily. Believe me I have spend many hours working with these problems trying multitudes of different ways to get it to behave. Off the top of my head here are the main ones, but there are more... if you set one loop as master and the others to sync to it, the master requires you press record twice in order to stop recording while the others only once - very confusing in a live situation. Also in this situation the master loop will glitch, ie it will skip a bit of time when you take it out of record instead of looping seamlessly the first time, (it loops fine on every successive loop), again disastrous. Loopers slaved to a master loop will randomly refuse to go into or come out of record. Loopers synced to a master looper don't always sync. I could go on, but all these things are covered in much greater detail in other threads by me and many others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiphones Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Hi You can do it, but its extremely glitchy and exhibits outright inconstant behaviour with certain configurations. In short, the live looping is not up to standard. Maybe this has been fixed in MS 3 I don't know, I'm still on 2.2 preliminary tests suggest that MS 3 is a load better in the LoopBack department CCT Ahh good I'll check that out thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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