Basic Signal Path Problem [SOLVED]

[George Middleton]

I'm mixing a tune with 40+ tracks: vocals, backing vocals, bass, drums, acoustic guitars, electric guitars, strings.

 

I've made a submix setup by sending each of those sets of tracks to corresponding auxes on which I plan to apply global effects, automation etc. The output of each of the submix auxes is "Stereo Out".

 

Some of the individual tracks in these sets of tracks also have send effects. In the screenshot, the "Congas" track- part of the "Drums" submix aux (Bus 16)- has a delay send effect just for "Congas". It's going to the "D-Congas" aux using Bus 1.

 

On the submix faders that don't include a track with send effects, I can drop the fader to nothing and that entire set of tracks is no longer audible.

 

My problem is this: any submix fader which contains a track that also has a send effect, that is not possible; the track with a send effect is still audible even with the submix fader dropped to nothing. If I also drop the send effect's aux fader (Bus 1 in this case) to nothing, the effect is no longer heard but the dry signal is still heard. The only way to make the dry signal inaudible is by dropping that individual track's fader ("Congas") to nothing.

 

I was hoping to have full volume control with each of the submix faders. I tried directing the output of "D-Congas" to "Drums", but that seemed to have no effect either way. Nor did changing the output on "D-Congas" to none.

 

Is this expected behavior, or am I missing something fundamental in my understanding of this signal path and how to accomplish it?

 

[Simon Morrison]

Changing the send to "Post Fader" will allow you to bind the volume of your submix to the send effect.

 

The send effect auxes should output to your summing bus (Bus 16).

[George Middleton]

Thanks Simon,

That's how I thought it should work. The send was already on post fader, and outputting that send effects aux to the summing bus does indeed bind the effect to the summing bus, but- the "dry" Congas are still audible despite the fader position of either or both the summing bus and the send effect bus.

 

I also have "groups" for each of those sets of tracks, but it doesn't seem to make any difference whether those groups are active or not, or whether the Send 1 checkbox in the drum group is checked or not.

 

I wonder if there's a global setting I need to change, or does this sound like a glitch perhaps remedied by trashing Logic's prefs?

[David Nahmani]

George, at first sight everything you describe is expected behavior. However I believe you missed this suggestion from Simon:

 

The send effect auxes should output to your summing bus (Bus 16).

 

Actually ONE thing you mentioned strikes me as odd:

 

If I also drop the send effect's aux fader (Bus 1 in this case) to nothing, the effect is no longer heard but the dry signal is still heard.

 

You're saying the dry signal is being heard when it's routed to a bus (bus 16) that goes to an Aux that has its fader set all the way down? That's not possible. The signal must also be routed somewhere else. If you wish to share a screenshot of that routing with some signal going on (while playing) so we can see the signal on the meters I'd love to see it, but I don't see how you could have signal on an Aux that has its fader down, nor can I imagine how that Aux can route signal to your Stereo Out if it doesn't have sends and its fader is way down.

[George Middleton]

Hi David, thank you.

 

Problem solved!

 

This was a failure of my understanding of the relationship between a "bus" and an "aux".

 

When I selected the "All" tab in the mixer, I discovered a 'hidden' bus 1 continuing to display signal even when only the Congas track was playing with the faders of the Drums summing bus and the Congas send effect aux all the way down.

 

Once I made that bus 1 visible as an 'arrange' track, the expected behavior resulted, with the Drums summing fader having complete control.

 

What I didn't understand was that the fader on the aux channel strip I created for the individual delay on the Congas was controlling the amount of that effect; that it isn't the bus itself.. Once I put the effect on the now visible bus, I have the same fader control of the amount of the effect.

 

Now that I know to make sure the busses themselves are visible as "arrange" tracks, I can visually arrange and name them to avoid the confusion!

 

Thanks again for your help.

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

This thread may shed some more light on the difference between busses and channels (even if you've figured it out now, it may help other readers): viewtopic.php?t=32964

[David Nahmani]

Great - you're welcome!

[George Middleton]

This thread may shed some more light on the difference between busses and channels (even if you've figured it out now, it may help other readers): viewtopic.php?t=32964

 

This is great, thank you!

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

This thread may shed some more light on the difference between busses and channels (even if you've figured it out now, it may help other readers): viewtopic.php?t=32964

 

This is great, thank you!

 

No probs