Modwheel not writing plugin automation

[josefahartose]

hey

 

think there could be an easy answer but have checked similar threads but no help..

 

My modwheel, in Write mode, will write automation for volume and pan but when i select any plugin parameter it will move the number (eg cutoff freq) but the movements are not written.

 

any help greatly appriciated

[ski]

First, advice: never use Write mode. It's highly problematic. Suggest you only use Touch or Latch.

 

Second, to write plugin parameters to automation you have to first assign the modwheel via the Learn function to the desired parameter. And it might mean you have to remove existing assignments to volume or pan or whatever else you're currently writing to automation.

[josefahartose]

OK I was using write mode following a tutorial normally i use touch aswell.

 

Yes the modwheel is assigned via Midi Learn, when in automation view moving my modwheel will move the eg. cutoff freq of my synth but nothing is actually being written onto the region?

[David Nahmani]

First, advice: never use Write mode.

Big +1 here.

 

Which synth are you using? If you try the same operation with, say, Logic's ES2 synth, does it work?

[ski]

That's correct, when writing automation, data is not written to a region. It's written to Track Based Automation (TBA). And here, what Logic is doing is converting CC#1 (modwheel) events to Fader Events, a Logic-only type of MIDI data that corresponds to the parameter you're moving. "Fader" is kind of a misnomer, because you could be adjusting a knob or some other type of control on a plugin, but the events it generates in the process are called Fader Events.

 

So no, you'll never see CC#1 actually recorded in your MIDI region when you're writing automation. Now, there is a way to pull those Fader Events out of automation and actually have them show up in a MIDI region, but when you do that they will still be Fader Events, not CC#1 events. Post back if you want details on how to do that.

[David Nahmani]

It sounds to me as if josefahartose is actually assigning the MIDI CC# inside the plug-in using the plug-in's assignment.... in that case you'd want to completely forget about track automation and simply RECORD the MIDI CC# onto the track: press record and tweak. The MIDI CC# events will be recorded, in the same way you'd record MIDI Notes.

[josefahartose]

First, advice: never use Write mode.

Big +1 here.

 

Which synth are you using? If you try the same operation with, say, Logic's ES2 synth, does it work?

 

 

Same problem with ES2. Ive tried it with a few different plugins/effect inserts and all are the same problem.

 

 

I have now gone through your book in 'Using Automation Quick Access' it goes thru this step by step, i have followed this but again plugin parameters are not recorded only volume/pan.

 

I have also followed the steps in 'Using Multiple Controller Assignments' and again the two parametres in Tape Delay will move as i move the controller, but they will not write to the region..

[ski]

Like I said, you can't write automation to a region. Please re-read my post above.

[josefahartose]

That's correct, when writing automation, data is not written to a region. It's written to Track Based Automation (TBA). And here, what Logic is doing is converting CC#1 (modwheel) events to Fader Events, a Logic-only type of MIDI data that corresponds to the parameter you're moving. "Fader" is kind of a misnomer, because you could be adjusting a knob or some other type of control on a plugin, but the events it generates in the process are called Fader Events.

 

So no, you'll never see CC#1 actually recorded in your MIDI region when you're writing automation. Now, there is a way to pull those Fader Events out of automation and actually have them show up in a MIDI region, but when you do that they will still be Fader Events, not CC#1 events. Post back if you want details on how to do that.

 

 

Yes please tell me

[ski]

There's a function under the arrange page's local Track menu that lists a whole slew of different automation functions, including one to move track based automation to region. (Not in front of Logic right now so I can't give you the exact name. But you'll find it if you just look through that menu). Then, with the region (or regions) selected you can move the automation data into the region.

 

But at the same time I'm curious as to why you want to do this. Automation data can be edited right on the track itself when automation view is enabled. You can also open the automation event list (available via key command only) if you really wanted to get in there and tweak the data.

[camillo jr]

Don't know if this will help but you could assign Controller 1 (Mod Wheel) to the cutoff parameter inside the plug itself. For instance, in the matrix at the bottom of the ES2, you could choose cutoff from the top of one of the slots and at the bottom choose controller 1, raise the arrow at the side of the slot to determine the amount and then you'll be able to write controller data to the region. In this instance, you're not recording cutoff data, what you're recording is Modwheel data, which in turn is controlling the ES2's cutoff.

 

In fact, even if the modwheel wasn't assigned to control anything in the ES2, you could still record Modwheel data into a region. Of course, in this case, the modwheel data wouldn't affect anything.

[josefahartose]

Just after writing a long reply and it didnt post.. yay!

 

anyway to keep it short this wasnt really a problem as i can just use my mouse in touch mode it would just be EASIER to use the modwheel for this.

 

Its really just a basic operation i want to do; have a midi region down, press play and write automation using the modwheel, press stop and have the automation written.

 

I have followed Davids book step by step on the subject and still no joy so i think must be a Logic error or else a midi keyboard error.

 

@ski cant see that function anywhere..

 

@camillo jr might try it that way see how it goes, cheers

[David Nahmani]

plugin parameters are not recorded only volume/pan.

In Logic under Preferences > Automation, where it says "Write Automation For:", make sure "Plug-in" is selected?

 

[camillo jr]

I have followed Davids book step by step on the subject and still no joy so i think must be a Logic error or else a midi keyboard error.

 

Nope, it isn't a Logic error, that's the way it's designed........ the kind of automation that you're talking about, using Automation Quick Access cannot be written to a region! This kind of automation, as ski pointed out, is written as Track automation, not region automation. But you'll only see this Track automation if you do the following:

 

Make the controller assignments in the Automation Quick Access window

Choose Touch or Latch in the Channel Strip

Turn on Automation view in the Arrange

Start play

Move controller

 

At this point, if you've done the assignments properly, you should be seeing automation being written to the track not the region. There will even be an indication in the bar in the track header about what kind of automation you just wrote, IE "Feedback" or "LFO rate" or something like that.

 

As ski also pointed out, you could move that Track Based Automation (TBA) to the region but that won't in any way allow you to continue writing automation to the region. If you try, you'll just end up writing more TBA which will now conflict with the automation which you already moved to the region. To re-cap: Automation written with Automation Quick Access will not ever write to the region, only to the track.

 

To do the kind of thing that you're looking for, you need to do something like what I described in my previous post here. The difference in this case is that you're writing Controller data - from the Mod Wheel, the Pitch Bend wheel, or some other controller and what you'll see being written in the region is not something like "cutoff" or any other synth parameter, it's simply some controller data which has been assigned, in the synth, to control something like cutoff, or drive or occilator level.

 

So, to re-cap:

Specific plug-in parameters can be automated via a controller assigned in Automation Quick Access and they will be written as TBA.

 

Specific Controllers' data (which can control synth parameters) can be written into a region but you will not see any of those synth patameters in the region, you'll see the controller data.

 

Plug in parameters - in the Track Based Automation (TBA)

Controller data - in the Region Based Automation (RBA)

 

HTH!