Help achieving sound in Tangerine Dream's "Thief"?

[deckard1]

Hello,

 

Please help. I am trying desperately to achieve a certain sound that Tangerine Dream created with the song "Diamond Diary" from their soundtrack album Thief. Here's a link to the song so you can hear what I am trying to achieve. It fades in at 2:10.

 

 

Anybody know what the heck they are doing? If so, any recommendations for what I can use in Logic to achieve this sound?

 

Thanks.

[Eriksimon]

Sounds like it should be attempted via Sculpture. Important part of that sound is its rythm, as it "bounces" very rapidly. Another important part is the attack, which is not just adsr, but also has a parameter for how the tone is made (for all three Sculptures' "objects", aka oscillators). This sounds to me like it's "blown" on Object 1.

[deckard1]

Thank you Eriksimon for your help.

 

I'll give Sculpture a try. When you say the sound "bounces" very rapidly I assume TD are using some type of sequencer. . .there's no way anyone can play that fast.

 

What is adsr?

 

BTW, are you a Tangerine Dream fan as well? The reason I ask is because they made all of these great analog "sounds" back in the 70's and early 80's. . .obviously using only hardware synths as software synths didn't even exist yet. Is Logic capable of mimicking it?

 

Thanks.

[mrtapir]

Attack Decay Sustain Release, its the sound envelope. The sound does have a sort of 'blowing across the top of a bottle' quality. You could try side-chaining a gate from some percussion loop?

 

Thanks for the heads up with Tangerine Dream by the way, they sound really interesting, never heard them before.

[deckard1]

Attack Decay Sustain Release, its the sound envelope. The sound does have a sort of 'blowing across the top of a bottle' quality. You could try side-chaining a gate from some percussion loop?

 

Thanks for the heads up with Tangerine Dream by the way, they sound really interesting, never heard them before.

 

My pleasure. They are truly amazing and "Thief" is their best effort, IMHO.

 

BTW, how do you side-chain a gate? Would love to try it out.

 

Thanks.

[mrtapir]

Well I'm not exactly sure (total novice), but you can have an audio track for example which has a percussion loop, mute it, and then on your synth track add a noise gate (or a compressor might do), and then on the noise gate there is usually a drop down box at top right where you can select 'sidechain' as an input, and then you choose your muted percussion track. Then set the controls on the gate so that it is activated by the percussion loop and lets the synth sound through in time with the rhythm of the percussion loop.

 

I've seen some videos on youtube about how to do it, and SoundonSound has plenty of stuff. Here's something from tutsplus.

 

And possibly someone else could explain a bit better! But thats the basic approach

[deckard1]

Well I'm not exactly sure (total novice), but you can have an audio track for example which has a percussion loop, mute it, and then on your synth track add a noise gate (or a compressor might do), and then on the noise gate there is usually a drop down box at top right where you can select 'sidechain' as an input, and then you choose your muted percussion track. Then set the controls on the gate so that it is activated by the percussion loop and lets the synth sound through in time with the rhythm of the percussion loop.

 

I've seen some videos on youtube about how to do it, and SoundonSound has plenty of stuff. Here's something from tutsplus.

 

And possibly someone else could explain a bit better! But thats the basic approach

 

Pretty cool. Thanks for the links. Will give it a shot.

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

Man, I love tangerine dream!

 

Knowing a bit about their M.O. I'd say that was probably step-sequenced.

 

Sculpture may sound a tad too organic, but the blown-tabla sound will be easier to achieve than with other logic synths.

 

Two things about emulating tangerine dream: 1) they were synth geniuses, ergo to copy them you must be also 2) they were huge innovators, and deserve far more credit for helping to shape electronic music, so it would be far more of a tribute to them to blaze your own trails rather than make homage music.

 

Have you seen the soundonsound.com synth secrets articles? That'd be a good place to start.

 

Oh yeah, and I'm pretty sure you'll need more than 1 synth layered for that sound.

[deckard1]

Man, I love tangerine dream!

 

Knowing a bit about their M.O. I'd say that was probably step-sequenced.

 

Sculpture may sound a tad too organic, but the blown-tabla sound will be easier to achieve than with other logic synths.

 

Two things about emulating tangerine dream: 1) they were synth geniuses, ergo to copy them you must be also 2) they were huge innovators, and deserve far more credit for helping to shape electronic music, so it would be far more of a tribute to them to blaze your own trails rather than make homage music.

 

Have you seen the soundonsound.com synth secrets articles? That'd be a good place to start.

 

Oh yeah, and I'm pretty sure you'll need more than 1 synth layered for that sound.

 

Thanks! Great avatar, BTW.

 

Couldn't agree more about blazing my own trails rather than making homage music to TD. I "simply" want to incorporate their techniques [e.g. sequencing, etc.] into my own brand of music without sounding too much like them per se. It's not as easy as I originally thought! Trying to achieve those "sounds" is very difficult.

 

Thanks for the suggestions with regards to Sculpture and soundonsound. Will check it out. I've also been going to the one-to-one Apple training sessions to learn more about using Logic to achieve the TD sounds, and, watching tutorials on Groove3 and MacProVideo.

 

Slowly getting there.

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

The sound on sound articles are great, and there's lots of them. Getting to grips with the basics of oscillators and filters will give you the tools to get the sound you want from almost any synth. Layering different synths is also important to creating novel sounds.

 

TD used step sequenced ostinato quite a lot, because of the nature of the hardware they used. Researching the gear they used and what it could do will help you get closer to their sound too.

 

Glad you like the avatar . *COUGH*