Will an SSD cure the System overload issue?

[RawScience]

Hi, i have an early 2011 15" 2.0 quad macbook pro with 8GB ram and have been suffering with the "SYSTEM OVERLOAD" issue constantly..With this machine i now can't even really use logic @ all..so i am thinking about an SSD as a last attempt.

 

Has anyone had the dreaded overload messages resolved by upgrading to an SSD as their main drive?

 

I plan on purchasing a large ssd probably 512gb and running everything from it..I'm sure this is not ideal but i will not be able to afford to buy loads of different external drives for samples,projects etc etc i also don't have the space or time.. Any info as to which ones will be best compatible? as with all third party hardware i see pretty much nothing but negative reports on the subject.

 

I am seriously close to sacking off apple and logic altogether after eight years of almost nothing but bad experiences due to the system overload bug. It's amazing nothing has been done by apple to correct this issue as it literally MUST be the biggest and baddest flaw in the software that almost every user struggles with @ some point or EVERY 5 MINUTES! haha

 

P.S. I have tried everything mentioned within the last few years on the net to cure the overload messages with no success (same as everyone else).

 

Thanks in advance

Charlie

[rickenbacker360]

I feel your pain.

 

My system uses an SSD (256) and a zippy CPU per my profile. I still occasionally get System Overload. To be clear, my audio (projects) and samples/loops (resources, etc.) use 7200 rpm external FW 800 units.

 

There's more to System Overload than your "throughput" from your internal/external drives, however. Your CPU is the culprit.

 

I don't want to go off in a tangent of the overall problem of Sys Overload but have found that my plugins (many of which use 32-bit bridge) can put the brakes on any project. For example, passing a UAD Cooper TIme Cube output into Logic's Space Designer is just too much. My project went from 50% CPU usage to overload with that single action on my part—but the overload only showed up in a singe "quiet" section of the song (go figure).

 

I don't do techno or dance and still have these problems, but things like freezing tracks and checking signal flow as I've mentioned may help.

 

There are a couple of thread which may educate you.

 

viewtopic.php?t=21676

 

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3161?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US

 

Sorry I can't offer more.

[Matt Mayfield]

It may or may not cure the problem.

 

With a rare set of users, it really is a bug. While that's technically possible, it's more likely that your setup is missing something small and subtle, yet crucial.

 

I'm puzzled when you say you "will not be able to afford to buy loads of different external drives for samples,projects etc...I also don't have the space or time.." It sounds like you think you need dozens of external hard drives. You don't. One or two should do it, and they're cheaper than SSDs.

 

A couple things to consider (you may know these already):

 

Samples use up hard disk/SSD speed

That's why it's always better to spread out the load to 1) System/Logic; 2) Audio recording; 3) Samples. If you can't use 3 drives, at least combine numbers 1+2 and keep 3 separate.

 

Yes, RAM helps, but samples first have to load from disk on playback and that will trigger the System Overload.

 

Software synths and plugin effects use up CPU

These don't use much hard disk speed, but they require ridiculous amounts of calculations per second.

 

Use "Freeze" ONLY if CPU speed is your issue

Freeze is a tradeoff: it uses up MORE disk speed, in exchange for LESS CPU. For people using lots of samples, that the Freeze feature is actually self-defeating instead of helpful. Freeze is only good for styles where the CPU does most of the work and the disks are fairly idle.

 

Different musical styles have different needs

There are many exceptions to these, of course, but in general:

 

Disk-intensive

Orchestral-style composition (samples)

Rock (audio tracks)

 

CPU-intensive

Electronic Dance Music (software synths + effects)

Pop (soft synths + effects)

 

Hope that helps,

 

Matt

[rickenbacker360]

Great info, Matt. Thanks.

[RawScience]

Thanks to both of you..i really appreciate the help..Unfortunately i have tried most imagineable solutions and workarounds. I tried putting projects and samples onto an external drive with no success (or noticeable change)...It would be possible for me to have 2 externals and the internal SSD but i often have one or two other bits of hardware attached to my mac. Also my interface is firewire which causes a slight problem when they require being plugged up @ the same time. Just laziness really, i want everything inside the mac if possible and think for £1200 or whatever the bloody thing cost i should be able to do so! haha

 

Amazingly though i may have actually come across a possible solution today i found a post in an old forum suggesting that a guy had solved the problem simply by creating a blank audio track and having it selected throughout playback..Amazingly this actually seems to have made an incredible difference to my projects. Regardless of size and track count this actually has calmed the CPU monitor right down.

 

I'll have to report back when i have had a little more test time...Still in shock hahaha

 

Thanks again

Charlie

[rickenbacker360]

Do report.

[involver]

Sounds like your problem was lack of CPU power rather than disk activity. Have you tried looking at what the CPU and disk meters are showing when you get problems?

 

Are you balancing cpu load across the cores? Read and understand this (if just one core overloads then Logic will stop playback):

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3161

 

Finally, make sure that you have set 'processing threads' to the highest number in the Logic audio preferences (should be 8 on your machine). Running logic in 64bit mode, with 64bit plugins should give the best performance too.

[RawScience]

Thanks..I have done all the above prior to this post..I have had a sneaking and really bad suspicion for a while that the issue could boil down to a hardware failure or flaw of some kind..The CPU spikes go hand in hand with the fans going absolutley ballistic and i have read somewhere that when this model was made too much of an insulating glue (or something like that) was applied, causing the machines to overheat rapidly. I don't know how much of this is true but it would certainly tie in with my issues as i face similar CPU spiking issues simply using safari, on a regular basis. I'd hate to think it was a hardware defect but it could be.

 

The above temporary solution seems to level things out a bit. And i will likely get a super fast SSD to beat the problem down further haha

 

Thanks again guys

Charlie

[David Nahmani]

i will likely get a super fast SSD to beat the problem down further haha

When you do so, please do let us know how the SSD affects your issue, a lot of people want to know! Thanks.

[blinkofani]

Hi,

I don't have a solution for you but by comparison, i have the exact same computer you have(see signature) and never experienced what you have. So, you must have a hardware problem somewhere in that computer or your internal HD is about to go south or something. I installed a 512Gb SSD just recently and everything is lightning fast. But i never ever recorded something on this drive(OS and sample libraries that are not streamed only). All audio goes on a FW800 ext. drive and my interface is USB2.0. If you can, i would try playing the project off the internal soundcard with the audio files on your external FW drive.

 

That's the only big difference with our setup(FW vs USB interface) but i don't think that's what could make your computer work so hard. One production i did some months ago had over 50 tracks with 8 amp sim. guitar/bass tracks, Omnisphere, Kontakt, external synths, etc, and that computer never halted or made crazy fan noises.

 

Blink

 

P.S. I want to add that the performance of the MBP was the same when i had the original 5400rpm HD inside. Everything was just slower to load.... Way slower!! Cold boot now takes 3 seconds!!

[robertg]

Your buffer size is probably too low

[RawScience]

i would try playing the project off the internal soundcard with the audio files on your external FW drive.

 

Thanks. Unfortunately i use a firewire interface so it would be awkward to use a firewire HD @ the same time. I guess there maybe adaptors or something for adding an additional FW slot though, i'll look into it.

 

Glad to hear yours is lightning quick with the SSD..Stupidly i neglected to let you guys know that i had used a friends clean factory Lion clone when i got the mac..i surpose this could be an issue, though he has used it on several different machines with no issues @ all and it was/is very quick and smooth in general use, my only run-ins have been with Logic and when i have large amounts of safari pages open/flash players active online. (both of which are likely issues with safari i would of thought.)

 

Could you tell me which SSD you installed? i am keen to get a reliable one. Also are you running Mountain Lion? Any issues with Logic when upgrading the OS? i generally stay one OS behind Apples releases.

 

@David - I will definitely report back and bump this thread when i have upgraded..Might be a little while as i've gotta raise a few quid.

[blinkofani]

Hi,

The SSD i got is a Crucial 512Gb. I'm still on 10.6.8. I guess you have a monitor hooked up to the Thunderbolt port but it could be worth a try to plug your interface to the TB port with Apple's new TB to FW adapter and an ext. FW HD to the FW port. It's never a good idea to record and playback audio off the system drive anyway, be it a SSD or trad. HD.

 

I cloned my int. HD to a USB external one using Disk Utility, installed the SSD and cloned back my system drive from the USB to the new SSD. Very simple but took a while to do this. But, if you say your system is ok in general i suppose your overloads come from a bad setup with Logic, audio-wise. I never get these overloads, except the usual first pass on a region on a new loaded project. It happens once and then it doesn't reappears. In fact, 9.1.7 is so stable here that i tend to forget to save often and i know i'll loose some edits at some points because i'm losing the habit of saving after every edits!! Good luck.

 

Blink

[RawScience]

Thanks for that...I'm sure the firewire adaptor would be good but i have another issue concerning thunderbolt and this a bit of a bastard. A couple of months ago i plugged in one of those cheap minidisplay port to hdmi adaptors and there was a spark from the slot followed by a power down of the machine. When i switched it back on everything was fine but the minisdisplay port has not worked, as far as i can check, ever since. the recent thunderbolt firmware update won't update either...As your probably noticing now i am one of mac users out there that goes through every imagineable struggle haha

 

Thanks

[CarlosUnderground]

Ooooooo!

[RawScience]

Need a bit more help if possible..The problem has kind if escalated since i last posted. Now i am finding i am having exactly the same thing happen in each of my projects. I can load up a project and play it through once but as i play it through a second time the cpu monitor (audio not HD) steadily climbs till all the cores are red-lining and it's system overload time. As before once the monitor has red-lined it takes minutes for the spikes to settle and even then, the second i press play (5 minutes later) it spikes again.

 

I really don't know what to do anymore, i've got a feeling it's this machine i might just sack it off and save up for one of the 2012 macs. I had an EP in the pipeline for release this year.... Now i have almost given up completely.

 

Any help?

[robertg]

what happens when you raise the buffer size.

[RawScience]

Absolutely nothing..I have had it set at maximum for a while. It's really annoying because it seems as though there is something simple i am missing. This mac is clearly powerful enough and others with the same machine haven't experienced the same problem.

[robertg]

It's probably core balancing. You probably have 1 core spiking out of control. Logic is a pain in the ass for this, it drives me completely insane. They should finally be able to balance the cores properly AUTOMATICALLY after so many years of multi-core processors being a common thing.

[fisherking]

i moved to a new macbook pro and an SSD a year ago. i still get overload errors...less than previously (but i also moved up to more ram, and of course, a faster mac).

 

i doubt the ssd will fix this. things that work for me:

look at your login items. anything running that could be disabled?

turnoff the airport, reboot, and open ONLY logic.

reboot between LARGE projects.

don't open or run anything else when you're working in logic.

 

i do this often, but wind up going online, surfing, checking email, etc.

then sometimes, especially after opening numerous logic files...i may get an error.

 

check your plugins too. are they up to date? are you running a lot of 3rd party plugs? and are they fully compatible with your OS?

[Atlas007]

Thanks..I have done all the above prior to this post..I have had a sneaking and really bad suspicion for a while that the issue could boil down to a hardware failure or flaw of some kind..The CPU spikes go hand in hand with the fans going absolutley ballistic and i have read somewhere that when this model was made too much of an insulating glue (or something like that) was applied, causing the machines to overheat rapidly. I don't know how much of this is true but it would certainly tie in with my issues as i face similar CPU spiking issues simply using safari, on a regular basis. I'd hate to think it was a hardware defect but it could be.

 

The above temporary solution seems to level things out a bit. And i will likely get a super fast SSD to beat the problem down further haha

 

Thanks again guys

Charlie

If you experience fan spiking for no valid reason, a reset of the SMC could be of some help. However, read well the instruction as this is considered as a last solution by Apple Support!

[RawScience]

If you experience fan spiking for no valid reason, a reset of the SMC could be of some help. However, read well the instruction as this is considered as a last solution by Apple Support!

 

 

I don't even know what to say mate..I now for the first time appear to have a silent mac. I can't believe it. I will have to report back with a logic update as hopefully the SMC reset will have helped. Thanks alot.

 

@ fisherking - I'm sure you are right that the SSD will not help greatly i was just hoping as a last resort. And as you have i guess i will just have to do everything i possibly can each time i use Logic. haha

 

It really is crazy that such a stressful issue can be left unchecked by apple for years and years. In fairness i can't remember whether Emagic had the same issues...I'm guessing not.

[RawScience]

RIGHT...Quick update, the CPU monitor in Logic now seems to be much more settled, no spikes as yet. The only overload message i have seen is when i hit a new event, mainly the break of a track. (which is common). Logic still seems to heat up the CPU raising the fan speed dramatically during playback but i am running weighty projects and this also is probably standard. The fans do ease of again after i leave logic and generally seem to stay below 3000rpm outside of Logic.

 

I would advise that anyone who suffers with the fan trouble and logic cpu spiking to do the above SMC reset. Seems to have made a noticeable difference.

 

I am still going to get an SSD drive and probably an external FW to ease the load further. I'll update once i've got everything up and running and thanks for all the help.

[involver]

Just out of interest, do you have the load balanced between the cores or is one spiking far above the rest (double click on the CPU meter in Logic)?

[RawScience]

I have the load balanced as best possible..The spiking seems completely irregular. Sometimes one core sometimes all.

[rickenbacker360]

This System Overload crap is the Achilles Heel of Logic. I've read every post on it since joining the forum and clearly, though consensus abounds on some procedures to try, there's no solution.

 

Even guys equipped with fast, 8-core big Macs, having lots of RAM can't get around it.

 

Seems like Apple's code is stuck in the 90s. Perhaps this is why it takes so long to get a major upgrade (10). Fingers crossed.

 

Sorry for your trouble. Feel your pain. I'm just glad I'm not producing huge plug-in projects.

 

Anyone have any success using "Logic Node" to ovoid the dreaded dialog?

[RawScience]

Your totally right and i appreciate your and everyone on heres input..@ least when everyone pools their situations and knowledge we can ease the problems. The tips from this site and others have certainly helped a bit.

 

What does Logic Node do?

[rickenbacker360]

As I understand, another Mac (not sure if more than one other) can co-process across a network. The idea being to share the load.

 

Never used it.

 

The obvious: another Mac is needed.

[Eriksimon]

This System Overload crap is the Achilles Heel of Logic. I've read every post on it since joining the forum and clearly, though consensus abounds on some procedures to try, there's no solution.

 

Of course there isn't. Logic is an open ended program, even if you get the Mac Pro of 2050 that is 458 times faster than the fastest current Mac Pro, Logic will be able to get it on its' knees, if you just keep adding enough plugins etc. It is not an achilles heel; every DAW can overload any CPU. The art of the true DAWician is to understand and work around this.

[rickenbacker360]

Most definitely agree.

 

But call it what you will, when I've seen 3 plug-ins total bring Logic to it's knees on my setup I'm just lost for an explanation. When I watch the left core peak at 100+% while the other is 25%, somebody's doing some poor coding.

 

I agree all DAWs must be similar in that one can eventually put a final straw on the camel's back. I do not know if other DAWs behave like Logic, in that the final straw comes so early in the process.

 

As a database programmer in another life, I've had to balance "performance for accuracy" and I would think some sage code writer could say, "Hmmm! 100% vs. 25%, let's just shunt and balance things a bit." I regret my choice of "Achilles Heel" if all DAWs are similar in their inability to do the "balancing act".

 

If, however, Logic is the unique DAW in this regard, what would one call it?

 

Seeing Eriksimon's 'convictions' byline, I'm being careful to not simply speak from conviction, but with an implied question. Am I wrong? It cannot be done? Apple/Logic cannot be told to balance the core-processing of my i7 chip?

 

Yes, any computer can be overloaded—if all its processor cores are suitably pushed to their limit (with plugins) but does anyone have an answer why 100 vs. 20 cannot be circumvented at the lowest levels of the OS?

 

A conundrum of code? A paradox of marketing?

 

All this, sadly does not help the OP or anyone with interest in the topic.

 

However, I'd like to learn more if anyone has more to share.

 

With respect to all on the thread.