Guitar Players, How Do You Get A Good Rock Sound?

[Presence]

You're welcome RJS. Yeah beerware! I agree bout the AT3 TS I haven't really tried their Rat one. The TSE Rat is nice and organic sounding to me I dunno.

 

Was just thinking I wonder if doing this front end pedal stuff would harm the Duet in any way?

Anyways back to adjusting the neck relief on Schecter guitar (always fun!) About .008 @ the 9th fret is my sweet spot.

[marcel72]

You guys are having a conversation about software emulations of... The Ibanez Tube Screamer and the Proco Rat?

 

Seriously.

 

Best, Marcel

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

You guys are having a conversation about software emulations of... The Ibanez Tube Screamer and the Proco Rat?

 

Seriously.

 

Best, Marcel

 

Seriously what?

 

How's that any different from talking about software emulations of a Juno or Minimoog?

[krist]

You guys are having a conversation about software emulations of... The Ibanez Tube Screamer and the Proco Rat?

 

Seriously.

 

Best, Marcel

 

Seriously what?

 

How's that any different from talking about software emulations of a Juno or Minimoog?

 

 

My guess - because they're inexpensive.

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

Hmmm...

 

But if, like me, you're stuck ITB (not out of choice, but because I can't afford the kit to rival the guitar sound I can get ITB), then owning the pedals is great, but rather limiting as to where you can stick them in the signal chain.

 

Plus, said plugs are either free or $5 beerware.

 

I have been on the lookout for a Tube Screamer, but I will not accept anything less than the old metal-box ones (as with my Guv'nor).

 

Anyhoo, snobbery aside and back OT, my Boss Fuzz pedal has a gain boost setting (no fuzz), I'll have to play with using that pre-interface...

[roojam]

I've had great success in taking the dry recorded channel and using a stock Logic amp model, panned if hard left, then send it via bus to new channel that is panned hard right. Add a sample delay on this second channel and play with the delay time. If you set it too tight you can get an obnoxious flanging/phasing issue but increase the delay and see what you think.

 

You can also reap the take by sending your modeled signal line out and into a clean amp, not guitar amp, but a transparent PA amp that is driving PA speakers, then mic the speakers. It has a way of taking off the edginess or harshness of the digital sound, via real world analog dynamic movement of the speaker.

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

I've had great success in taking the dry recorded channel and using a stock Logic amp model, panned if hard left, then send it via bus to new channel that is panned hard right. Add a sample delay on this second channel and play with the delay time. If you set it too tight you can get an obnoxious flanging/phasing issue but increase the delay and see what you think.

 

I would go for recording new takes everytime over sample delay shenanigans.

[deckard1]

- Amplitube has some fantastic amps in the custom shop, their SLO is very close to the recorded sound of my own real Soldano.

 

Why thank you!

 

I just demoed the SLO from Amplitube and it sounds pretty awesome! I've been struggling for two months to get a decent distorted electric guitar sound by way of my real amp that I have been micing in my untreated recording room...with zero success.

 

The SLO plus my Redwirez impulse responses may have solved my problem!

[Eriksimon]

Another approach could be to simply copy the track, leave one as it is and use flex with "techno"-ish quantisation on the other.

[marcel72]

You guys are having a conversation about software emulations of... The Ibanez Tube Screamer and the Proco Rat?

 

Seriously.

 

Best, Marcel

 

Seriously what?

 

How's that any different from talking about software emulations of a Juno or Minimoog?

 

 

My guess - because they're inexpensive.

Yes.

 

Emulations of a large, rare (and no longer produced), expensive, finicky, but sonically unique analogue synth? Sure.

 

Emulations of a $20 pawnshop guitar pedal that basically sounds like s**t in the first place? WTF?

 

Although if you put aside the fact that the UI looks like a TubeScreamer, there's nothing wrong with a free distortion plugin that you like the sound of.

 

Best, Marcel

[marcel72]

I've had great success in taking the dry recorded channel and using a stock Logic amp model, panned if hard left, then send it via bus to new channel that is panned hard right. Add a sample delay on this second channel and play with the delay time. If you set it too tight you can get an obnoxious flanging/phasing issue but increase the delay and see what you think.

This will work much better if you use 2 different amps (or amp sims, I guess).

 

I used to use this technique when doing really 'heavy' guitar guys. Guitar goes to ABY box (on 'Y'), one side goes straight to an amp, the other side goes through a digital delay (set to single repeat with a 100% wet mix, delay of around 27-33mS, IIRC) and into a second amp. The different frequency response characteristics of the 2 amps are enough to eliminate any phase cancellation (combing), but the signals are close enough in time to sound as one. You can mess with the delay time to maximize positive interaction, and mess with the settings on the respective amps to produce a great sound that is very flexible after the fact, just by changing the relative levels of the 2 amps in the mix.

 

I don't see any reason why this wouldn't work the same with sims. You can still double track for even more girth.

 

Best, Marcel

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

 

Emulations of a large, rare (and no longer produced), expensive, finicky, but sonically unique analogue synth? Sure.

 

Emulations of a $20 pawnshop guitar pedal that basically sounds like s**t in the first place? WTF?

 

Although if you put aside the fact that the UI looks like a TubeScreamer, there's nothing wrong with a free distortion plugin that you like the sound of.

 

Best, Marcel

 

Well, emulations never sound exactly like the real thing, so I never think of them as such. I'm only interested in the sound, not what the GUI looks like. I take them for what they are, not what they're trying to be.

[BigWheel]

Thanks for all of the great information. I'm still digging through this thread and researching all of the recommendations. I really appreciate it.

 

I was an early adopter of Line 6's POD, way back in 2000.

 

Hey krist (or anyone else), do you have any thoughts on the new POD HD's compared to the older ones? I recently saw a POD 2.0 on craigs list for $65. He said he thought it was one of the original ones. I'd hate to spend $399 on the HD if the older ones are actually better.

 

Thanks again everyone. Posting here at Logic Pro Help has opened up my eyes and put me on a path to find the sound I'm after and I appreciate it!

[Gravity Jim]

Emulations of a $20 pawnshop guitar pedal that basically sounds like s**t in the first place?

 

 

Show me where I can buy old Tube Screamers and Rats for 20 bucks and I'll buy every one you can find, flip them for what they actually go for, and retire.

[Eriksimon]

Yep, they tend to be a bit more pricey than that...

http://www.marktplaats.nl/z/muziek-en-instrumenten/tube-screamer.html?query=tube+screamer&categoryId=728

[krist]

Thanks for all of the great information. I'm still digging through this thread and researching all of the recommendations. I really appreciate it.

 

I was an early adopter of Line 6's POD, way back in 2000.

 

Hey krist (or anyone else), do you have any thoughts on the new POD HD's compared to the older ones? I recently saw a POD 2.0 on craigs list for $65. He said he thought it was one of the original ones. I'd hate to spend $399 on the HD if the older ones are actually better.

 

Thanks again everyone. Posting here at Logic Pro Help has opened up my eyes and put me on a path to find the sound I'm after and I appreciate it!

 

I haven't tried the HD series, unfortunately. I've heard the HD 500 a couple of times over at friends' place, but didn't try them for myself.

 

That being said, I do own a Line 6 Spider IV 75 watt, and the emulation is definitely better than the old POD 2. Not flawless, but better. Line 6's modeling has improved since the POD 2 first came out, and I'd expect the HD to be much better.

[voodoogmr]

I also use the Line 6 Spider IV 75w. So far, miking the cabinet has given me a much better recording compared to using the models in GarageBand and now LP9. They sound decent, but just can't seem to get the same amount of sustain with them. Sounds like a noise gate is kicking in, even though it's disabled.

 

Someone else mentioned this, but I've also run my miked cabinet through another amp model in Logic and got cool sounds doing that. That's worth experimenting with, especially if you double-track the guitar.

[krist]

I mentioned something similar recently in a thread about Logic's plug-ins - re-amping an already amped track using Guitar Amp Pro, and pushing it just under the main guitar tracks to beef them up. Works great for certain things, particularly if you're after a wall of sound w/ a somewhat synth-like quality to it.

 

Probably wouldn't work for old school rock, but for, say, Marilyn Manson type of stuff and such, it can be just the ticket.

[Kouly]

I know I am late to the party but I just want to reaffirm that there is a reason that people love the tube sound and I have never been able to get the same saturated sound out of a plug.

Since the process of making music is long enough without tweaking a plug in, I decided to go with a dedicated

pre amp to distort my guitar. I have never looked back. It is a Digitech GSP 2101 which is a rather old unit now though its sound has remained very relevant because the sound of a guitar thru a tube amp will never go out of style.

You may be able to use any pre amp with at least two stages of gain to allow the complete range of distortion. I do not know specifically since I only use the GSP because it has all the effects built in so there is no load on my CPU. If the day comes when I can't find a shop to repair it, then I will have to start looking for a replacement pre amp. Hopefully that day will never come.

[Gravity Jim]

When people talk about a "tube amp," they're talking about the complicated interplay between a tube pre-amp, a tube power stage, and the load of a speaker. It gives a very specific "feel" to the instrument.

 

In that regard, the GSP2101 wasn't really a tube amp. It's a solid state digital amp with a couple of 12AX7s in a low-voltage preamp. 3 of the distortion models were tube generated, the rest were solid state, and the entire unit was essentially a single-use computer, not a lot different from a POD. I had one and I loved mine. But it's no more a "tube amp" than a Chandler Tube Driver was.

 

Here's a picture of the inside:

 

http://www.tube-tester.com/sites/gsp2101/pics/gsp2101-inside.jpg

 

If you ever have to replace it, I drive software models by plugging my guitars into a UA SOLO 610 tube preamp. There are lots of good choices, but this unit is a great mic pre, bass DI and guitar injector all in one.

[BigWheel]

Hey, thanks again for all of the information. I'm still researching.

 

I went to the music store the other night and played through a POD HD400 and a Zoom G5. I found the G5 to be easier to use and I thought it sounded better too. Has anyone used a G5?

 

If I use a POD or G5 do I still need to use my Fast Track Pro as an interface or can I go directly from the POD or G5 into my iMac? I've been wondering if the FTP is causing some of the issues that I have with my guitar sound. The G5 has USB.

 

Thanks!

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

According to this review, the G5 is an audio interface, but the "Tube Booster" does not work in this mode: http://m.musicradar.com/gear/guitars/fx/multi-fx/g5-546819

[BigWheel]

Thanks, that's really interesting. I wonder why the tube booster can't be used with USB. I pulled down the manual for the G5 and confirmed the same.

 

From the manual:

Signals recorded by USB Audio cannot be amplified by the TUBE BOOSTER.

 

I assume then that if I were to go out of the G5 and into my FTP I could use the Tube Booster. Either way it sounded great with and w/out the booster kicked in. Zoom doesn't market this as a "Tube" feel. They say the Tube Booster is good for getting a little more power when soloing.

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

Yeah, you can plug it into your FTP or Mac input if you want the Tube Booster.

[robinloops]

I searched forever and spent a ton of money looking for the perfect digital solution until I finally settled on hardware solution. It cost a bit of money to build a good guitar rig but in the long run only a little more than all the cash I forked out trying to find the perfect all around digital solution.

 

I always liked Native intruments Guitar rig. That said I was never happy with any modelers (tried logic pro, guitar rig, Boss GT8) and settled building a real guitar rig (Hiwatt custom 50 with tc electronics delay and digitech multi-effect in rack and pedalboard with rat/tonebone, electric mistress) which I mic out with a shure sm-57. This gives me exactly the sounds I'm after. There are a lot of smaller 15-20 watt tube amps that are designed for studio recording that are affordable and work well in home studios.

 

One of the great things about guitar rig is it has great cabinet simulators that work well even with a real hardware guitar rig/amp if you use a DI (instead of mic'ing real speaker). A great hybrid solution is to build a good pedal board with your distortions (I always hated digital distortion sims) and run that into guitar rig (or logic) for effect rack and amp and cab sims. Alternatively you can add a real rack setup (in mine I have the tc electronics delay and a multi fx unit with a yamaha rack line mixer) and just use the amp and cab sims. And even add a real amp and use a DI box (direct out from speaker connection) so you have the real amp's qualities and just use digital speaker cabinet sims. Finally you can add mic's and use the amps speaker's qualities as well and eliminate digital sims altogether.

 

This is also a good way to build a guitar rig over time. Start with the pedals you want and use less digital as you build the rest of the rig (in the order above).

[bobsbarricades]

I approve of this thread. Currently treading my way through the LePou amps and the free Red Wire marshall IR's loaded into LAConvolve and it definitely sounds more "real" than anything I've tried before. But so far it just sounds more "real" in the sense of it's a poorly recorded guitar amp =? hahaha

 

But is hopeful. Getting so tired of sounding so amateur ya know? Oh that I could just push a button and say "here's Adam Jone's guitar sound" go make music! =(

[steveo12ax7]

I finally got around to buying the Redwirez Big Box last night and I'm very happy with it. The MixIR plugin is so great for everything cab related – got rid of all kinds of bussing and makes it really organized and easy to try the various mic positions in quick succession. It definitely requires some time invested to come up with sounds, there just aren't enough good presets posted yet, but its almost easier just to load up your own combination of IRs anyway.

 

Also lately I've been throwing a nice reverb (in this case Valhalla Room) after the sim to give it some space, and it makes all of the amp sims so much more enjoyable to play.

 

I'm using Logics amps without their cabs, Amplitube free, and the LePou amps (especially LeGion and HyBrit). Haven't tried to fit these tones into a mix yet, but for writing and practicing at home it really is fantastic.

[bobsbarricades]

Yea, throwing it into a mix is where everything pretty much fell apart for me all day yesterday. It was terrible. I went back to a mix I did last week and almost cried.

 

As for mixIR2...I can see why it would be preferable to bussing.

 

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

Mix IR is great! Stupidly low CPU hit too.

[BigWheel]

Hi,

 

I thought I'd knock the dust off this old thread and share what I found for the solution.

 

I have a lot of guitars, but most of them have single coil pickups. So I took my Fender Strat and removed the pups and put humbuckers in it. I put a Seymour Duncan Jazz pickup in the neck, and a JB in the bridge.

 

When I play live through an amp, I can use single coil pups and get a nice, warm, tube sound. But when recording in Logic, the single coils just don't seem to have enough output to get a sound and a feel that I like. After installing the humbuckers, it was like night and day. Truly an amazing difference. Some might say that's a no brainer. But again, I'm able to get a good sound with single coils when playing through an amp. So that really through me off. I thought if I can get a good sound through an amp, why can't I get that sound in Logic. And I assumed that humbuckers would react the same way - great live, no so great in Logic. But that was not the case at all. The humbuckers gave me exactly what I was looking for. Today I just run straight into Logic and I get a great sound.

 

I spent a lot of time researching this so I hope this might help other guitar players who are struggling to get a good sound in GB or Logic. I would recommend doing this before buying plugins, pedals, etc...