Final stage... mastering this track.. killing me

[zepsun]

Every time I try to add some volume to my final tracks it just sounds worse to me. I've tried limiters, multipressors etc..

For instance with this track, I get it loud, but then it starts sounding really hissy... I really tried avoiding too much high end in the mixing, but now it's popping out in the mastering... I'm probably going to end up working with an engineer, but I'd like at least some help, feedback, and/or opinion....

 

I've been 'listening' to music since I was 14 (hearing the production and starting my own recordings) and I still can't seem to make compression work for me.

 

For some reason uploading was taking a while, so I used Sound Cloud.

NOTE: Both versions are on the same timeline. First one is quiet, and second version is somewhat louder.

 

 

Thanks,

Edited February 17, 2013 by zepsun

[camillo jr]

Your link is not working.....

 

Meanwhile, check out this thread for all kinds of advice on this topic. In particular, follow lagerfeldt's links for more details on mixing as it relates to mastering.

 

Also, unless you really know what you're doing with the Multipressor, you can easily wreck a track with it (and do things like inadvertently boost the high end into "hissyness".)

[zepsun]

Thanks for getting back to me. I updated the link, it should work now.

I wouldn't mind an opinion on what this sounds like production-wise. Do I push it louder or is it loud enough? Does it need EQ? I think I hear everything, but that's me right?

[camillo jr]

When I first listened to your track I though, "yep, that's quiet!" until I realized that you've put the unmastered and mastered versions back to back on the same track. It may seem obvious but you might want to point that out in your opening post.

 

What I'm hearing is that the vocal is thin in the verses compared to the choruses. And overall, the high end on the vocal sounds a bit harsh to me. This goes for both mastered and unmastered versions of your song. Could stand some attention paid to de-essing too. But yeah, there would definitely be some challenges getting the vocal to be clear over all the guitars. I'd say you have to revisit your vocal leveling strategies. I'm hearing some frequencies really pop out here and there. Maybe stacking compressors or using frequency depenant compression along with some volume automation. Something along those lines. What have you done to the vocal so far?

 

One thing to check in the bottom end is conflicting frequencies between the bass and the kick. You can help that with some side-chained compression where the bass is (briefly) compressed during kick hits. Also you may be pumping in too much low end on the reverb. Might be good to EQ out some of that on the reverb Aux.

 

Sorting out the bottom end is one way of giving your song more headroom for mastering.

 

And on a side note, while I realize that this thread is more about the sonics, the drums could do with some reeling in; they lurch around a bit.

[zepsun]

I give up.

To me it sounds pretty good - at least the best mix I've come up with so far - so I thought. I'm just going to have to bring it to an engineer. I cannot make compression work for me. I'm fed up trying. I need to see the difference between what I have now and what it can be.

 

Thanks for your input though. I do appreciate it.

[Darude]

Sorry, I don't have any input on this track/mix, I can't listen to it right now, but it can really be money well spent if you get someone to do the mix (&master) for you, especially if they use the same DAW and you get the final project file back, so you can study it afterwards. Listening to your own mix day in day out makes you deaf to it, and being frustrated doesn't really help it, either.

 

That said, finding a comparable commercial release and meticulously (and honestly!) comparing your mix to it should tell you a lot, and should give you pointers about the sound you should be / are after. I've made my kind of dance music for over 15 years now and I still often struggle with the last couple of dBs when I do my "masters" for my DJ set play, but I've given up on that and I still get my released music mastered by a pro ME, so that I get the best loudness vs. clarity ratio and won't completely destroy the mix to a powerless square wave.

[iStudio72]

The instrument sound great but i have to agree that the vocal needs some attention, it's buried in the mix. I don't think that is something that could be fixed at mastering. Was the vocal track very low gain? It sounds like you have mixed the track with volume in mind and lost the vocal.

It might be worth going back and mixing again without worrying about the volume, that can be sorted at mastering. Just get the relative levels right and you can bring the overall level up later.

[camillo jr]

The thing with vocals in a busy mix is that there's always the temptation to add high end to make them stand out. But sometimes it's frequencies further down that will give the vocal more weight and presence, especially after you've done some good leveling.

 

Look at it this way..... you've got lots of competition from the distorted guitars in the 3 to 5 K range so on the surface of it, it would seem that adding some more of that to the vocal will help it rise above the guitars. But doing it that way is a "competition" strategy. It might make more sense to instead carve out some of those frequencies from the guitars to open the mix up a bit. Just a couple of db or so can really help w/o loosing too much from the guitar tone.

 

After that, it will pay to get a handle on the de-essing of the vocal. Next, the leveling. You could for instance have a chain of plugs that looked something like this:

 

EQ

Limiter to take just a bit of the peaks away before compression

Compressor for strong compression

Another compressor with more gentle settings

Volume automation, because often a compressor is not enough!

 

Note that these could be in different orders, for instance, you might do some eq after the compressor, if the comp has made the sound too dull. Or the limiter might be at the end of the chain just to pull down a few peaks here and there.

 

The volume automation is picky but this is where you really get in and "get rid of the uglies" as a friend of mine puts it. IOW, you listen for the stuff that jumps out too much and pull it down with automation, a db here, a couple of db there.

 

Regarding the EQ, try and use less high end and see if you can make that work in conjunction with the other things I've mentioned.

 

Your song has lots of great sounds in the instruments. Punchy big drums, great guitar tone and so on. There's a couple of areas where the bass has some resonances that would be good to tame. To find out where those are, you could try using Voxengo's free Span plug-in. This is a brilliant little piece of software that allows you to solo specific frequency areas. This really helps for finding those overly loud frequencies that might only pop out here and there.

[zepsun]

Thanks a million for your feedback - both of you. Cam you gave me a lot of stuff to springboard off of now. I appreciate that, and look forward to trying it tomorrow. I'll report back when I get it done.

 

iStudio, that's a brilliant idea about finding someone that works woth Logic and

getting the project file.

 

thanks!

[ontrackp]

An old studio trick for helping a vocals sit a little better in a mix is using notch filters. Very subtle -- you don't want to overdo it (same with compression -- less is more). Sub-group your backing track and then your vocal. Find the frequency that gives the nicest edge to the vocal (this will vary but is often in the 1.5 - 2k range) and give it a very narrow 2 or 3 db boost. You'll have to experiment with this to find the frequency sweet spot. On the sub-group bus of your backing track, notch the same frequency out by -2 or -3 db. Sometimes even a little less works nicely.