Setting for music for TV & Film

[CarlosUnderground]

What settings are used for TV & Film? I wouldn't be scoring To video,

just making cues to sell as a collection for the studio to place as they

see fit. Sample rate, bit depth, format, yaddayadda.

 

Thanks!

[CarlosUnderground]

Guess I'm left to my own devices. Grrrrr:-)

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

48kHz wav.

 

Bit depth would depend on the dynamic range of the material really, but 24bit probably.

 

That's from my humble experience anyway

[lagerfeldt]

Generally 24 bit, 48 kHz WAV. Sometimes 16 bit, 48 kHz. Higher sample rates only upon specific request.

 

For TV commercials you'll need to live up to the EBU R128 loudness regulations (Europe) or ASTC A/85 (USA), which are very similar, though not identical.

 

With EBU R128 that's an integrated reading of -23 LUFS (+/- 1 LU) with a G10 gate.

 

With ASTC A/85 it's -24 LKFS (+/-2) and I believe a G10 gate will or has been implemented recently. They seem to change the specifications, likely to be more in line eith the EBU regulations.

 

In practice the two standards are virtually identical and at least a EBU R128 passed file will also pass a ASTC A/85 measurement.

[juha-pekka kuusela]

what these EBU R128 actually means ? i want non over technical ansver.

[lagerfeldt]

You forgot to say the magic word.

[Eriksimon]

I just tried Googling, but it is still not clear to me what LU stands for. Is 1 LU actually 1 dB?

This is what I found on the Swiss EBU site:

"LUFS is the unit that is used to express loudness levels on an absolute scale, while LU is the unit for differences between loudness levels, in other words, loudness levels on a relative scale. So, a programme that has a loudness level of -23 LUFS is 2 LU quieter than a programme that has a loudness level -21 LUFS. LU can also be used as the units for loudness levels relative to the target level. It is anticipated that common usage could be, "You are 2 LU low," rather than "You are at -25 LUFS."

 

If you are familiar with the decibel (dB) as a unit, you will know that a dB is an expression of the ratio of two levels - the level to be described, and a reference level. The postfix to the dB tells you the reference level, for example, dBm is referenced to 1 milliwatt, dBu to 0.775Vrms. LUFS is a measurement on a decibel scale and is relative to the loudness level of stereo (front left and front right) 1kHz tone peaking at 0dBFS."

http://tech.ebu.ch/Jahia/site/tech/cache/offonce/loudness/loudness-faq-target_level;jsessionid=F186016FE4391A8B8241907ABEA24CF1.jahia1

 

 

I'd like to rant now.

This is a very poor and incomplete explanation. Annoying. Just simply tell me what 1 LU is, EBU-engineers!

I know now the difference between LU and LUFS (same as difference between dB and dBFS), but that's pretty useless as I still don't know what 1 LU is. 1 kHz tone at 0 dBFS is equal to 0 LUFS. Great. And is 6 dB under that equal to -6 LUFS? Or is a LU 1 Bell? Or 1/3 decibel? What is 1 LU?

 

WHAT IS 1 LU?

 

Why do EBU engineers find it so hard to be to the point, and to explain what is the most basic to this new "unit", namely how it is quantified?

 

 

Please, Holger?

[CarlosUnderground]

48kHz wav.

 

Bit depth would depend on the dynamic range of the material really, but 24bit probably.

 

That's from my humble experience anyway

 

Thanks a bajillion Rev. & Lagerfeldt.

 

Cheers.

[lagerfeldt]

You're welcome.

 

WHAT IS 1 LU?

 

Why do EBU engineers find it so hard to be to the point, and to explain what is the most basic to this new "unit", namely how it is quantified?

 

 

Please, Holger?

Didn't you read the EBU Tech document no. 3341 called "Loudness Metering: ‘EBU Mode’ metering to supplement loudness normalisation in accordance with EBU R 128 - Supplementary information for R 128"?

 

On page 7, in section 2.4, line 5-6 they clearly state that "[...] 1 LU is equivalent to 1 dB."

 

And they go on in section 2.5 to elaborate that "[LU is a] relative measurement, such as relative to a reference level, or a range: LK = xx.x LU [where] the ‘L’ in ‘LK’ indicates loudness level, the ‘K’ indicates the frequency weighting used."

 

So there you go.

 

I

I know now the difference between LU and LUFS (same as difference between dB and dBFS), but that's pretty useless as I still don't know what 1 LU is. 1 kHz tone at 0 dBFS is equal to 0 LUFS. Great. And is 6 dB under that equal to -6 LUFS?

When it comes to LUFS, remember that the R128 specified -23 LUFS standard is actually an integrated reading, i.e. as well as being a frequency weighted reading, it's gated and measured over the full length of the material. So in theory you should always note if you're talking about an integrated (I), momentary (M) or short-term (S) time scale in relation to a reading, i.e. "-23 LUFS (I)".

 

The R128 regulations make sure that the total average loudness of a commercial do not exceed a specific value. So a commercial with constant background music, lots of sound effects and non-stop voice-over will not be able to blast out of your TV at any point. However, a 30 second commercial with low or no background music and sparse voice-over will be able to blast out a fairly violent sound effect at one point or simply seem louder when there's actual signal. In other words hyper compression is now counter-productive, and both macro and micro dynamics are rewarded.

 

The easiest way to understand exactly how this works in real life is to buy or get a trial of a LUFS meter such as the NuGen Vis-LM and experient on various self-composed material.

[CarlosUnderground]

Sheesh!

[Eriksimon]

You're welcome.

 

WHAT IS 1 LU?

 

Why do EBU engineers find it so hard to be to the point, and to explain what is the most basic to this new "unit", namely how it is quantified?

 

 

Please, Holger?

Didn't you read the EBU Tech document no. 3341 called "Loudness Metering: ‘EBU Mode’ metering to supplement loudness normalisation in accordance with EBU R 128 - Supplementary information for R 128"?

 

On page 7, in section 2.4, line 5-6 they clearly state that "[...] 1 LU is equivalent to 1 dB."

 

And they go on in section 2.5 to elaborate that "[LU is a] relative measurement, such as relative to a reference level, or a range: LK = xx.x LU [where] the ‘L’ in ‘LK’ indicates loudness level, the ‘K’ indicates the frequency weighting used."

 

So there you go.

 

First of all, let me thank you for your time & explanations, they do answer many of my questions.

 

OK, I assume you understand all this, as you are an engineer, but this seems too complicated for any home projuicer that "just wants to get it as loud as commercial tracks", I mean, they already struiggle with the "standard" 0 dB peaks and -7 to -15 dB RMS.

Frequency weighting.... right... no idea what that means (well, theoretically, yes, but hearing it...?)

I have always used AudioLeak to do long time equivalent loudness checks on mixes - is that anything like this method?

And in what unit does "K" come? Is it something that is expressed in units?

 

I

I know now the difference between LU and LUFS (same as difference between dB and dBFS), but that's pretty useless as I still don't know what 1 LU is. 1 kHz tone at 0 dBFS is equal to 0 LUFS. Great. And is 6 dB under that equal to -6 LUFS?

 

When it comes to LUFS, remember that the R128 specified -23 LUFS standard is actually an integrated reading, i.e. as well as being a frequency weighted reading, it's gated and measured over the full length of the material. So in theory you should always note if you're talking about an integrated (I), momentary (M) or short-term (S) time scale in relation to a reading, i.e. "-23 LUFS (I)".

 

The R128 regulations make sure that the total average loudness of a commercial do not exceed a specific value.

 

Which?

 

 

So a commercial with constant background music, lots of sound effects and non-stop voice-over will not be able to blast out of your TV at any point. However, a 30 second commercial with low or no background music and sparse voice-over will be able to blast out a fairly violent sound effect at one point or simply seem louder when there's actual signal. In other words hyper compression is now counter-productive, and both macro and micro dynamics are rewarded.

 

OK, you did explain the principle (and implicitly also its' aim (get more dynamics in sound)).

So in effect it is "summing" levels over a specific amount of time? So the unit would be dB/s (decibel per second) measured over at least 10 seconds? Or 30 seconds? Or 1 minute?

 

The easiest way to understand exactly how this works in real life is to buy or get a trial of a LUFS meter such as the NuGen Vis-LM and experient on various self-composed material.

 

Exactly? I don't think too many perople will ever understand exactly how it works.

 

...and who (except engineers) likes to spend money on meters anyway? Also, I still do not understand what "gating" has to do with it? How can you measure anything when a gate is closing? How does a gate give a better reading than no gate? Or: how can shutting of the sound help in measuring its decibels or LUFS...? It sounds to me like measuring light intensity of the sun in a blacked out room...

 

They should really incorporate such a meter in Logic Pro X, methinks. Is the old TT dynamic range meter in any way, shape or form comparable to a LUFS mdeter?

 

Looks like I'm bitchin' a bit. Sorry for that, and thanks again for your explanatory efforts.

 

The big question is, of course: will this alter the way we should mix & master (commercial pop & dance-) music?

[lagerfeldt]

The R128 regulations make sure that the total average loudness of a commercial do not exceed a specific value.

 

Which?

-23 LUFS (I).

 

So in effect it is "summing" levels over a specific amount of time?

Yes.

 

So the unit would be dB/s (decibel per second) measured over at least 10 seconds? Or 30 seconds? Or 1 minute?

No, LU. Remember this is a weighted (frequency dependent) measurement, unlike a regular RMS reading. A LUFS reading puts more emphasis on high frequencies than low frequencies, i.e. high frequency energy counts more than low frequency energy. Basically like adding shelving filters to the sidechain.

 

The time frame is, as already mentioned, over the full duration of the piece, though it's an ongoing calculation using overlapping time windows. This is called an integrated reading (I). It's explained in detail in the tech docs.

 

Also, I still do not understand what "gating" has to do with it? How can you measure anything when a gate is closing? How does a gate give a better reading than no gate? Or: how can shutting of the sound help in measuring its decibels or LUFS...? It sounds to me like measuring light intensity of the sun in a blacked out room...

Sometimes when doing statistics you filter out extreme results to get a more realistic idea of the actual average. Gating works a bit like this, i.e. it filters out low level signals or silence to avoid extreme readings and to avoid people manipulating the system.

 

Since an integrated reading is designed to measure the average level over the full duration of the file, without gating you could in theory have a 30 second commercial with complete silence in the first 20 seconds and then blast away in the last 10 seconds (though still observing the -1 dBTP rule). Gating will make sure you cannot cheat this way, though you can get closer by using low background sound/music just above the gate.

 

Then you have something called Loudness Range (LRA) which goes even further in demanding dynamics. However, LRA is often not used since it's creatively stifling. A LRA was originally specified for Danish commercial TV, but was removed due to complaints (that'll be me), because A) it limits creativity and B) unlike a LUFS reading, a LRA reading cannot accurately be measured in short length material.

 

They should really incorporate such a meter in Logic Pro X, methinks. Is the old TT dynamic range meter in any way, shape or form comparable to a LUFS mdeter?

The new Cubase actually has a LUFS meter. No, the TT meter is not directly comparable. I would be very surprised if a new version of Logic didn't include a LUFS meter.

 

The big question is, of course: will this alter the way we should mix & master (commercial pop & dance-) music?

Currently no. But there are serious talks about something similar to the R128 regulations for TV being implemented in radio.

 

Exactly? I don't think too many perople will ever understand exactly how it works.

I believe I have a pretty good idea All my knowledge of this subject stems from publicly available information, and experimentation with the NuGen Audio Vis-LM meter.

[Eric Cardenas]

They should really incorporate such a meter in Logic Pro X, methinks. Is the old TT dynamic range meter in any way, shape or form comparable to a LUFS mdeter?

The new Cubase actually has a LUFS meter. No, the TT meter is not directly comparable. I would be very surprised if a new version of Logic didn't include a LUFS meter.

 

Here's a screen shot of RME's DigiCheck and its ITU1770/EBU R128 Meter: