Is Japanese study of music theory similar to Western theory?

[ansthenia]

Hello everyone

 

I have recently noticed, from looking at midi files and transcribing some myself, that my favorite Japanese composers very loosely follow the counterpoint and harmony rules, if at all. My favourite Japanese composers; Nobuo Uematsu, Yasunori Mitsuda, Hiroyuki Sawano and Yoko Shimomura (all of which studied music at college and/or university or with private tuiton) have music full of western theory no no's.

 

Yoko Shimomura and Yasurnori Mitsuda pretty much base everything off of parallel 4ths & 5ths. Hiroyuki Sawano creates incredibly complex textures that seem to contain more parallel 2nds, 7ths and 9ths than they do parallel 3rds and 6ths, and the melodies are hitting those dissonant intervals on downbeats just as ofter as consonant ones. I've also noticed they they all utilize 7ths, 9ths and 11th's, as well as quartal and quintal harmony, a lot more often than composers of western classical music (or at least the main ones in the study text books like Bach and Mozart) and these extend harmonies are treated as concrete/stable tones rather than always having to resolve. There is also a way bigger emphasis on modes; the Major/minor tonality system is pretty much absent in favor of the colors of Dorion and Mixolydian etc...

 

It's quite irritating for me to study counterpoint and harmony to constantly be told that what my favorite composers do is forbidden, as I very much prefer their style to that of western classic composers that music schools and text books are trying to get me to emulate.

[Beer Moth]

Doesn't mean they don't know it. Those rules are disciplines.

They help in understanding,upon which you can build and ignore as necessary.

Short version.

[Nublu]

as I very much prefer their style

There you go .....

enjoy

 

 

 

 

That was easy.

[tristancalvaire]

Parallel fifths are pretty much the best sound there is soooooo...

[lookatthisguy]

Parallel fifths are pretty much the best sound there is soooooo...

 

Centuries ago, you'd have been burned at the stake for saying that… funny how times change.

[lookatthisguy]

It's quite irritating for me to study counterpoint and harmony to constantly be told that what my favorite composers do is forbidden, as I very much prefer their style to that of western classic composers that music schools and text books are trying to get me to emulate.

 

What you're being told is that it was forbidden, historically.

[aleos]

I think a good thing to keep in mind, and I try all time to remember this (and this is how I teach my theory classes), is that; when studying tonal theory (i.e. the music from Bach to almost-Wagner), the objective is that you are learning to manipulate sounds. Music is a continuum. And everything has led to where we are now. For instance Toru Takemitsu, a favourite composer of mine, is full of traditional rule breaking, but he learnt his craft from idolizing and mimicking Debussy and Messiaen. Those guys, also famous rule-breaking geniuses, learnt to break the rules and make beautiful music by studying the music of Bach, Beethoven etc. For instance, if you learn that in counterpoint, a 1/1 line, made up primarily of 3ds and 6ths in contrary motion will sound very "proper", and in a style suitable to basic 17th century counterpoint. Then you will have also learnt (possibly subconsciously) that a line composed primarily of minor 2nds and 7ths, will sound very "wrong" aka "not in the style" aka "modern" And this is where a good perspective on learning theory comes in handy. When I say it is wrong in a class, I don't mean it is it doesn't sound good or is not cool, it means that it is wrong to achieve or mimic a certain style. So the more you know about a style you 'don't' want to sound like. The better you are at coming up with something that suits your taste. The perfect example is harmony. In my work, I strive not to place any traditional cadential movement in it. I don't want that sound. It is not me. ie V-I. And due to the fact that I am quite aware of what constitutes traditional harmony, I am able to explore more freely all the while avoiding the sound I wish to exclude. l'll use Debussy again as an example. He used parallel 5ths all over the place. I would bet he did this because he 'knew' it was wrong and different, and he wanted to compose music that was wrong and different. Of course he was also influenced by Asian music, but that's another story. Arvo Part is another great example. He studied, in depth, traditional vocal music from the Russian orthodox church, as well as 16th century counterpoint. And he came up with a music that is profoundly beautiful and modern. It really all comes down to leanring how to manipulate sounds, and creating the desired effect you hear in your head. If there is a better method of learning how to do this, let's do it. But until then, our best bet is studying the bad ass cats from the past. And by learning how they achieved their sounds, we can either choose to include or exclude those devices to suit our taste. Remember, it is called "theory" , not "fact" or "law". Treat it as a possible explanation, not an imposing dictator, and it will be much more enjoyable.

[Nogan]

Yoko Shimomura... Kingdom Hearts or Mario and Luigi? Or not?