Turning off comping?

[Paul Zimmer]

Hi, I posted this question a couple of days ago in the Logic Users Group, but things are a little quiet there these days, so I've joined up here instead!

 

In common with a few other users, I'd love to be able to turn comping off (specifically midi comping, as I don't use audio file comping much), or at least find a better way of working around it. I'll describe why the process drives me so crazy in the hope that someone can suggest a workaround:

 

When playing in midi parts in with software instruments, I record in a lot of short takes - normally a couple of bars. Say for example, I'm playing in a drum part. I cycle round and round in a loop, playing the hats in over and over until i play a take that I know feels right. I might then want to add a kick and snare, so I cycle around the same couple of bars to layer these up, and then merge them with the hats. I might then repeat this process with other percusssion and by the end, I'll have a merged drum sequence that I'm happy with.

 

The above used to work very well before comping, but now it is a nightmare. Firstly, as mentioned above, I always know when I've played the best take in - because I just keep looping round until a take feels right - so having to file through multiple takes just slows me down, rather than speeds me up. But secondly and much more importantly, each time I do a new "pass" to play in a new part (as with the example above), the comping feature merges in my original flattened take (e.g. the hats) with my new set of takes (e.g. kick and snare). The only workaround for this that I've found is to copy the kick/snare take I like and then "paste at original position" this midi data into the hats take to merge them, then flatten the overall take. Doing this hundreds of times a day slows my work process down greatly.

 

I know that people will suggest that in the above example, I could create a new "same instrument" track for each additional drum part to keep my drum parts separate, but this isn't always my preferred way of working, and besides, for different instruments (for example a piano part), I wouldn't want a load of unnecessary "same instrument" tracks cluttering up the screen.

 

I'm also aware that there are other options in "Settings/Recording" that change the comping behaviour, but they change it to even worse options, such as "create tracks in cycle record", which just litters my workspace with additional duplicate tracks which I'll then want to delete.

 

I hope the above description makes sense, it's pretty hard to covey without visuals. This has been driving me crazy for about a year now and I've finally reached a boiling point of frustration (hence my first post to this group for years!), so if anyone can suggest a solution, I'll be very grateful.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Paul

[Jordi Torres]

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I'd love to be able to turn comping off (specifically midi comping

 

There's no MIDI comping feature in Logic. Comping can only be done with audio regions.

 

I cycle round and round in a loop, playing the hats in over and over until i play a take that I know feels right.

 

Are you in play mode or record mode when you do this? And what is your MIDI: Overlapping Recordings setting when doing this?

 

I ask because there seems to be missing info in the process to achieve what you describe...

 

I might then want to add a kick and snare, so I cycle around the same couple of bars to layer these up, and then merge them with the hats. I might then repeat this process with other percusssion and by the end, I'll have a merged drum sequence that I'm happy with.

 

...If you're in record mode, you'll have several takes (if "Create take folders" is your setting) or multiple overlapping regions (if using the "Merge with selected regions" setting).

 

The above used to work very well before comping, but now it is a nightmare. Firstly, as mentioned above, I always know when I've played the best take in - because I just keep looping round until a take feels right - so having to file through multiple takes just slows me down, rather than speeds me up.

 

OK, sounds like you're using "Create take folders".

 

But secondly and much more importantly, each time I do a new "pass" to play in a new part (as with the example above), the comping feature merges in my original flattened take (e.g. the hats) with my new set of takes (e.g. kick and snare). The only workaround for this that I've found is to copy the kick/snare take I like and then "paste at original position" this midi data into the hats take to merge them, then flatten the overall take. Doing this hundreds of times a day slows my work process down greatly.

 

There's no merging going on, your flattened hats region is added to a new take folder when you start recording again.

 

I think your best bet is to keep each part in its own track when dealing with a drumset instrument (using several tracks for the channel strip/instrument), and then merge the flattened regions of each kit piece to one track and delete the other tracks.

 

J.

[David Nahmani]

Hi Paul, Jordi is right, there's no comping for MIDI in Logic, but my guess is, by "comping" what you meant is "take folders". So check your overlapping recordings under Settings > Recording, and make sure it's not set to create take folders.

 

Now I'm not sure I completely understand what behavior you're after. I believe I understand that you mean you'd like to record a kick drum in cycle mode, and when you press stop, it automatically only keeps the last pass of the cycle. Then you do the same with a snare, record the snare in cycle mode and when you press stop, it automatically only keeps the last pass of the cycle for the snare and merges it with the kick. And so on and so forth.

 

Unfortunately, that behavior is not possible in Logic. You either merge your recording (but then it keeps all passes of a cycle recording) or you create take folders (in which case you still have to manually get rid of the unwanted takes).

 

If I misunderstood the behavior you're looking for, then please do clarify.

[Paul Zimmer]

Hi Jordito and David,

 

Many thanks for your replies. Yes, you're right, I was referring to midi Take Folders.

 

Jordito:

I currently have the Settings/Recording option set to merge only in cycle record. This is the least bad option for my workflow, as it doesn't create new tracks (which drives me crazy tidying up afterwards).

 

I'm not in record mode when I do this, I use the "capture as recording" keyboard shortcut, as this is a faster way of working for me. Is there a difference in behaviour between the two?

 

David:

Yes, ideally it only keeping my last take would be great (to save me wading through the other takes), but actually the real issue for me is the merging into the new takes of previously existing regions. This happens during the following process:

 

- cycle round, record a few takes of (for example) a piano melody.

- choose favourite take and flatten

- cycle round the same bars on the same track and record a few new takes of a piano bassline

- the flattened piano melody is now incorporated into the set of take choices, whereas I want it to have remained as a separate region, which I can then simply glue to the new one when done.

 

So my workaround for the above situation is to select my favourite newly recorded piano bass take, copy the notes, select the previously recorded piano melody take, "paste at original position", and flatten. It's a tedious process to repeat hundreds of times a day!

 

Hope I've explained it a little better this time, but if not, let me know

Best,

 

Paul

[camillo jr]

I think a combo approach is best for your workflow.... which might include using some of those pesky New With Same Instrument tracks. (AKA "subtracks")

 

Even with Merge only in Cycle record checked, you'll still get the take folder being created after several passes (when using the Capture As Recording command). If you know that you've done your best pass, stop transport and invoke this key command:

 

Flatten Take Folder

 

This will leave only your most recent take.

 

As for keeping takes separate (like a piano bass, melody and chord parts) this is where the subtracks come into play.

 

Create one for your bass piano part and two more for the chord and melody parts.

 

Play your bass part until you've got what you want. Flatten the take.

Now move to the next subtrack, play your chord part and Flatten.

 

Next, select both parts and use the merge command "Merge Regions/Notes".

All selected regions will be merged into the top region.

 

Now it's dead simple to hit delete to remove your extra subtracks. Start with the highest one and they will be deleted with a couple of quick stabs at your delete key.

 

AFAICT, this is really the only way you can get what you want, which is to avoid an old part, like a bass line, from being merged with the chord part, while you're working on the chord part. And these subtracks have other advantages: you can mute other regions that live on the same channel strip track. Or you can have alternate takes of the same part, like having three melody tracks at once. Mute/unmute to try out alternate arrangements. Or alternate controller tracks. Say you want to try a pass of Modwheel moves but not have that pass be recorded into the region with the notes in in. Subtracks to the rescue.

 

Personally, I find subtracks so useful that I have a key command set up so that I can bang off a few New With Same Ch strip/ Instrument track very quickly.

[David Nahmani]

I currently have the Settings/Recording option set to merge only in cycle record.

(...)

- cycle round, record a few takes of (for example) a piano melody.

- choose favourite take and flatten

Something doesn't add up there: with that setting you wouldn't be able to record "takes", instead what you play for every pass of the cycle would be merged into a single region.

 

To clarify your description of the behavior:

- What is the Settings/Recording option set to?

- Are you "recording" (pressing the Record button, and having the bar ruler turn red, etc...) or are you using the "Capture as Recording" key command?

[Jordi Torres]

To clarify your description of the behavior:

- What is the Settings/Recording option set to?

- Are you "recording" (pressing the Record button, and having the bar ruler turn red, etc...) or are you using the "Capture as Recording" key command?

 

I currently have the Settings/Recording option set to merge only in cycle record. This is the least bad option for my workflow, as it doesn't create new tracks (which drives me crazy tidying up afterwards).

 

I'm not in record mode when I do this, I use the "capture as recording" keyboard shortcut, as this is a faster way of working for me. Is there a difference in behaviour between the two?

 

J.

[David Nahmani]

Ok so by "recording" he means "use the capture as recording" key command then? Sorry if I'm a little slow on that one...

 

Yes, Paul, there is a difference between the two. Merge only in cycle record does not merge when using the capture as recording key command, it only merges when actually recording, with the record button (or key command).

 

Well then now that I understand what you wanted Paul, yes, I believe that Camillo's approach is the closest to giving you the solution you're looking for. It may not be exactly what you want, but as close as you can get in Logic I believe.

[Paul Zimmer]

Hi Camillo and David,

 

Thanks again for your suggestions. Camillo, I already use this as a workaround sometimes, and although - like you - I like sub-tracks, in a big orchestral arrangement, when I'm already using multiple sub-tracks for CC data and other stuff, I'm really looking for ways to keep their use to a minimum. Too many can start to really eat up the vertical screen space and so slow down workflow with constant scrolling up and down, but I guess in the absence of an alternative, it's the best solution, so thanks for your thoughts on this.

Best,

 

Paul

[Jordi Torres]

I like sub-tracks, in a big orchestral arrangement, when I'm already using multiple sub-tracks for CC data and other stuff, I'm really looking for ways to keep their use to a minimum. Too many can start to really eat up the vertical screen space and so slow down workflow with constant scrolling up and down, but I guess in the absence of an alternative, it's the best solution

 

You could use folders to keep that under control.

 

J.

[camillo jr]

Another couple of things that might help that......

 

For quickly jumping through your stack of tracks, the page up & down keys can be handy.

 

For reducing Arrange clutter, use the Hide function in the Groups window to hide whole sections of tracks, Brass, Strings, etc. There's a toggle command for that window - Toggle Groups window - and a Group Clutch command to enable or disable existing group assignments.

 

Note that the hide function will still operate even if the group is otherwise disabled via the Group Clutch command.

[Paul Zimmer]

Hi Camillo and Jordito, thanks for the suggestions - much appreciated!

Best,

 

Paul

[camillo jr]

You're welcome!