robsoul Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Hi all, I'm new to the forum and looking for advice and guidance in purchasing a new computer for my home studio. I'm relatively new to music production so started off with a 2010 Duo Core Mac Mini with 8GB RAM running Logic Pro 9. Over the last several months my track counts have gone up to about 30-40 and I've added synths like Omnisphere and Stylus. I'm looking to add other similar virtual instruments with large libraries. I also have a personal 100GB sample library. Despite freezing tracks, creative bussing and bouncing in place, the mini has started to show it's age and frequently freezes during playback. I don't record audio directly and use a balanced mix of audio and virtual instruments. I'm going to get a new computer and a UAD-2 PCIe card. Two computer options I've been exploring: Quad core 27" iMac i7, 3.4 GHz, 1TB HDD 7200 RPM (6GB/s) , 8 GB RAM = $2200. Magma 3T PCIe Chassis = $1100 Total = $3300. 6 core Xeon Mac Pro Tower, 3.33 GHz, 1TB HDD 7200 (3 GB/s), 8 GB RAM = $3000. 3 PCIe slots included. Total = $3000 For either option I'll add 16 GB RAM from OWC. I have a 30" Mac Cinema display so that is not an extra cost if I go the tower route. I'm not much of an early adopter so waiting for the new Mac Pro is not an option. Even though the current tower is older technology I can add more than 32GB RAM if needed whereas in the iMac 32GB is the max. But will I really need more than 32GB? Will the iMac's 6G/s in HD data throughput be meaningful? Will I notice the difference between 4 and 6 core? Can you hear the angst? What do you think? Thanks in advance, Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I would go with the Mac Pro. You would only need more RAM if you're running Logic in 64-bit. The PCI slots and 4 internal HD bays are great for handling your projects. The tower is a no-brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I would go with the Mac Pro. You would only need more RAM if you're running Logic in 64-bit.The PCI slots and 4 internal HD bays are great for handling your projects. The tower is a no-brainer. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I'm going to go against the others and say get the iMac. Add a fusion drive or an SSD as your main drive. Ditch the magma solution and get an Apollo. The Mac Pro architecture is really old right now and one of the biggest bottlenecks will be the SATA 2 bus. The new iMac has USB3 and Thunderbolt as default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Bottleneck? In what situation? How is a maximum of 3,000 Mbit/sec (SATA 2 specspeed) a bottleneck? That's about one thousand threehundred and two (1302) 24 bit 48 khz stereo tracks per disk. Big project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Monkey Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I would go with the Mac Pro. You would only need more RAM if you're running Logic in 64-bit.The PCI slots and 4 internal HD bays are great for handling your projects. The tower is a no-brainer. Another +1 I'm using a Mac Pro (used to work on an iMac). The Mac Pro runs so slick. Very fast especially if you install multiple drives. I have no regrets for buying the Mac Pro. In fact, I'm about to buy another one soon before they discontinue the current model. I really have no interest in the new "trash can" version they're about to release. Also, one thing I've always disliked about the iMac is the built-in display and the inaccessibility of the HD. Pain in the ass if/when your internal HD dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Bottleneck? Yes. A modern SSD has a sequential read of about 500 MB/s. You are not going to be able to utilise this with a SATA2 connection. Same thing with USB3 and thunderbolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badcatblackcat Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 One word of caution. I bought an i7 iMac recently to replace an aging Mac Pro (as I was starting to wonder whether the new Mac Pro would ever be released) and am very happy with it. The one problem I had was that I bought a PCIe chassis (made by Sonnet) to house two UAD-2 cards. The fan on the chassis was so loud that I couldn't use it and had to send it back. So if you have a way to check out the noise level of the chassis before you buy, it would probably be a good idea. I wound up with a UAD Satellite which works great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 The one problem I had was that I bought a PCIe chassis (made by Sonnet) to house two UAD-2 cards. The fan on the chassis was so loud that I couldn't use it and had to send it back. So if you have a way to check out the noise level of the chassis before you buy, it would probably be a good idea. I wound up with a UAD Satellite which works great. This is exactly why I recommended the Apollo. You get a great interface and DSP from UAD. You can also track through the UAD plugins without any additional latency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashermusic Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 One word of caution. I bought an i7 iMac recently to replace an aging Mac Pro (as I was starting to wonder whether the new Mac Pro would ever be released) and am very happy with it. The one problem I had was that I bought a PCIe chassis (made by Sonnet) to house two UAD-2 cards. The fan on the chassis was so loud that I couldn't use it and had to send it back. So if you have a way to check out the noise level of the chassis before you buy, it would probably be a good idea. I wound up with a UAD Satellite which works great. I have that chassis and while it is a little loud as you say, I put some foam around it, moved it further away, and I can live with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Bottleneck? Yes. A modern SSD has a sequential read of about 500 MB/s. You are not going to be able to utilise this with a SATA2 connection. Same thing with USB3 and thunderbolt. Ah, I see: SATA II has a ceiling of 375 MB/s, so an SSD with 500 MB/s can only use 75 % of its' maximum speed - is that what you're saying? Will it not still feel very much faster than any spinning disk setup? Also: the Mac Pro does still have a slight edge over the i7, benchmark-wise, AND it has 12 cores vs the i7 "only" 8. Otoh, the individual cores are faster on the i7, which is beneficial for instruments in Live mode (=when MIDI playing/recording any software instrument). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Ah, I see: SATA II has a ceiling of 375 MB/s, so an SSD with 500 MB/s can only use 75 % of its' maximum speed - is that what you're saying? Will it not still feel very much faster than any spinning disk setup? I believe it is 300 MB/s (2.4 Gbit/s) but that's basically what I mean. And remember that this is the theoretical speed. It's always a good thing to have some headroom. And YES! It will feel much faster anyway, but you will certainly notice the difference when loading samples, I believe the OP was using Omnisphere a lot. Also: the Mac Pro does still have a slight edge over the i7, benchmark-wise, AND it has 12 cores vs the i7 "only" 8. Otoh, the individual cores are faster on the i7, which is beneficial for instruments in Live mode (=when MIDI playing/recording any software instrument.) I totally agree with you about the core speed. The i7 clocks up to 3.9 GHz in turbo speed. The Xeon 3.6 GHz. The bus speed is also slightly faster in favor for the iMac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastfourier Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Three grand?! The solution: hackintosh! That might not be too much help to you, but I thought I'd say it anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsoul Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 One word of caution. I bought an i7 iMac recently to replace an aging Mac Pro (as I was starting to wonder whether the new Mac Pro would ever be released) and am very happy with it. The one problem I had was that I bought a PCIe chassis (made by Sonnet) to house two UAD-2 cards. The fan on the chassis was so loud that I couldn't use it and had to send it back. So if you have a way to check out the noise level of the chassis before you buy, it would probably be a good idea. I wound up with a UAD Satellite which works great. Thanks for the heads up. I didn't even think of the fan noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsoul Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 I'm going to go against the others and say get the iMac.Add a fusion drive or an SSD as your main drive. Ditch the magma solution and get an Apollo. The Mac Pro architecture is really old right now and one of the biggest bottlenecks will be the SATA 2 bus. The new iMac has USB3 and Thunderbolt as default. Couldn't you get around the 3Gb/s limit in a Mac tower with a PCIe SSD card? On the OWC site they have a 480GB SSD 6GB/s PCIe card for $550. I think the Apollo is a great idea if I go the iMac route. My only issue with Apollo has been cost...but I wouldn't need the PCIe chassis and won't need to buy separate audio interface - I've been looking at the Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56. I think the final cost would balance out if I just went with Apollo. I've read on the OWC site and Anandtech that the fusion drive is not a good idea for prosumer use. But on most of the forums users have been happy with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I'm telling you, go with the Mac Pro. It will last longer than an iMac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Monkey Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I'm telling you, go with the Mac Pro. It will last longer than an iMac. +1 And so many more options with the Mac Pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redlogic Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Thanks for the heads up. I didn't even think of the fan noise. Apparently you can disconnect the fan with no ill effects. OWC PCIe expansion chassis - fan noise? Thunderbolt PCIe expansions: too noisy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el-bo Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 wait for the new mac dustbin...erm, i mean, pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badcatblackcat Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Thanks for the heads up. I didn't even think of the fan noise. Apparently you can disconnect the fan with no ill effects. OWC PCIe expansion chassis - fan noise? Thunderbolt PCIe expansions: too noisy? Sonnet told me that this wasn't a good idea so I didn't try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashermusic Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 The fans are there for a reason, those cards get hot. Not to mention it would void the warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkletch Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Thanks for the heads up. I didn't even think of the fan noise. Apparently you can disconnect the fan with no ill effects. OWC PCIe expansion chassis - fan noise? Thunderbolt PCIe expansions: too noisy? As a computer technician I definetly DO NOT recommend unplugging any fan for any reason in a computer. This was a video card where the fan died. Only took 5 minutes to overheat and literally catch on fire. Now if that was a $1000 UAD card I would be pissed as hell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Couldn't you get around the 3Gb/s limit in a Mac tower with a PCIe SSD card? On the OWC site they have a 480GB SSD 6GB/s PCIe card for $550. Yes, that's the way to circumvent the limit of SATA 2. Bottom line is that you have 4 SATA slots that are slower than a USB3 port. I think the Apollo is a great idea if I go the iMac route. My only issue with Apollo has been cost...but I wouldn't need the PCIe chassis and won't need to buy separate audio interface - I've been looking at the Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56. I think the final cost would balance out if I just went with Apollo. If you are an avid user of UAD cards Apollo is the way to go. There are several features that are specific for the integrated DSP. The biggest one is the ability to track through the plug-ins with no additional latency. I've read on the OWC site and Anandtech that the fusion drive is not a good idea for prosumer use. But on most of the forums users have been happy with it. Fusion is a compromise to be able to have more space at a cheaper cost. It will always be slower than single SSD solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsoul Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 Thanks all for the feedback so far - it's been very helpful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cardenas Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 You're most welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepsun Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Three grand?! The solution: hackintosh! That might not be too much help to you, but I thought I'd say it anyway +100 Running a solid Hack w/ 10.8.3 and 9.1.7. 1/3 the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastfourier Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Not to mention the thrill of running a borderline illegal hardware/software combination! (Depending on where you are in the world) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyal Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 I know this reply is WAAAAAY late, but I thought throw this in here anyway. It's 2016 and I'm still running a Late 2009 i7 iMac. I threw in a Seagate 4TB Fusion Drive and two weeks ago bought Crucial RAM on Amazon clocked at 1333 MHz (not the default 1067 MHz). I swear by my machine. It's a friggin beast! Any errors that I had before are gone. If I had to do it all over again, I would get a 2010 i7 iMac, because it has an extra SATA port and you can add another SSD drive (plenty of Youtube videos on this). Other than that, I'm super stoked. In fact, I just wrapped up a project where I was running a full symphony orchestra (38 instances of sampler tracks) and all with all the signal processing my heart desires on each channel as well as the main output. My CPU meter was at about 60 percent. So if anyone is still on a market for a good machine, save yourself some $$$, go on Craigslist, OfferUp or Ebay and buy a 2009-2011 i7 iMac. You will never ever ever regret it. P.S. I personally don't care for thunderbolt. I have 4 SSD hard drives + Apogee DUET FW daisy chained through a FW800 port on the iMac - not a single hick up. NOT ONE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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