Post Fader Inserts

[JT3_Jon]

Did Logic Pro X hopefully add Post Fader Inserts, or is Logic still the only mac DAW without this functionality?

[David Nahmani]

No post fader inserts.

[Eriksimon]

To achieve PF fx you could output a track to an aux, then the auxes' insert slots are post-fader of the track (plus, from the aux you have an extra post-post insert fader, effectively providing more control). Yes, that creates an extra aux channel strip, but at least it can achieve the same, ehh, effect.

Could you give an example of a signal routing/situation in which you should/must/want to use a postfader insert?

[JT3_Jon]

I have some plugins from Air Windows, as well as saturation plugins (or any plugin that models actual gain staging in hardware for that matter) in which you want to have proper gain staging going into the plugin for the desired sound.

 

For example, I'm using Air Windows console, an encoder / decoder plugin in which you put the encoder as the last plugin on all your inserts, and the decoder as the first insert on your master: (more info here http://www.airwindows.com/base.html ) Lets say I have a REALLY hot synth pad that in order to get it to fit in the mix I have to throw the fader down to -22db (which is surprisingly common I find given each VI's need to impress when you load it up by playing back at insane volumes). If I put a air windows console as the last insert, which is still pre fader, I'm actually distorting the decoder part of console as when it adds up with all my other tracks, its WAY above 0dB. Of course if I had the ability to simply make this insert "post fader" nothing would peak as the fader is already at -22db to get it to fit in the mix.

 

I also find metering plugins make more sense post fader. Also, for limiter/maximizer plugins, having the ability to run them post fader is almost a MUST. For example, If you're drawing automation on a bus or master automation with a limiter, you may want the limiter to react to this automation "post fader" so you're not causing unnecessary gain reduction if the fader causes the signal to ultimately be under the threshold. Same could be true of compressors under certain mix conditions I would imagine. You can also do really cool reverb/delay effects with post fader inserts instead of having to use an aux track and automating it.

 

I know what your thinking, "just route the output of this track to a bus and now anything you put on the bus is post fader!" Well, this is true, but if your using console / tape emulation plugins on each track, and want these to be post fader, you'll run out of busses FAST! Plus it just seems silly to have to have add a bunch of buses in order to have post fader inserts, something that every other major DAW allows you to do directly in their channel strips! If every other DAW has them, they must have seen the importance / flexibility / connivence it offers, right? Cubase finds them so important that they use 2 of they limited to 8 inserts as post fader! Digital Performer even lets you have ALL your effects be post fader if you want!

 

Seems odd to me Logic doesn't have them at all. Sad to see they were not added in Logic X.

 

p.s. to get around some of these problems with the lack of post fader inserts I've been trying to use gain plugins, and while it works, I find it brings with it its own host of unfortunate annoyances. Simply having post fader inserts in the channel strip (copy how digital performer does this) would make life MUCH easier.

[Amplifuzz]

+1 on the excellent Airwindows stuff, and Post Fader Inserts are crucial to the correct operation of SoundRadix Pi as well. Pi is the coolest mix plugin to come along in ages and once you try it it's really hard to do without.

 

The aux workaround means ending up with a mixer with twice the tracks, unacceptable. PFI are the feature LPX needs the most at the moment.

[wjm]

I just want to add my voice to those calling for post fader inserts for all the same reasons listed above.

[radjenko77]

If somebody reading this,of the guys that builds Logic...IT ' S A BIG REQUEST!!! I know it's possible trough busses,but that's NOT the same and sometimes not enough Busses for that... When This changes i l never ever have the need to go out of Logic and Mix in another DAW!!! IMHO...

[Jordi Torres]

This has been requested before:

 

Post fader inserts - every other DAW has 'em, why not Logic?

 

If you want to contact Apple about this directly, please go here:

 

http://www.apple.com/feedback/logic-pro.html

 

J.

[IainPetrie]

Would love that feature. Using soundradix PI a post fader insert is required for it to work effectively.

At the moment i need to create an aux for each track, which doubles the number of mixer tracks

surely this would be an easy feature to add?

[Vascillate]

Yes, I know you can use a bus. But an extra bus per channel strip is a complete flow killer when working with projects that have 30+ tracks, as you completely flood your mixer. It couldn't be too hard to implement, and the workflow would be significantly improved. Limiters, compressors, expanders, and any other dynamic processors make much more sense post fader. Also, Logic is limited to 64 sends, and if you are already using 20 sends, and have 30 tracks, then if you want to dynamically process most of those tracks post fader then you're already up to 40 or 45 sends. Now if you want to frequency split/channel split 5 or 6 of these tracks, then you start cutting it close, and maybe even going past the bussing limit. 64 auxiliary tracks is also not ideal (you can delete the side chain aux tracks and leave the send, but that still leaves too many aux tracks).

[Jordi Torres]

Topics merged.

 

J.

[TheRdungeon]

This is from ages ago, but goddam this would almost be the perfect DAW if they included this. Airwindows console is so good but really hard to work with on Logic unless you bus every output or use gain plugins instead of volume, both of which are slow and clunky

[Nogan]

another +1 on this, sending feedback request to apple.