Flex Time/Editing Transients Changes Apple Loop Sound?

[jejune]

Hey, quick question.... 1st post here... somewhat of a novice Logic user.....

 

Working with apple loops, when I drag and drop apple loops into the arrange window and play, the track sounds like it sounds in the loop browser. I can change the tempo and the track sounds identical.

 

If I detect transients in the sample editor, it seems the loop develops a sort of echo effect, like it is being stretched at the transients to compensate for time changes, that i can't get to go away after I open that editor..........

 

is this normal? any way around this? anyone else experienced what I am referring to?

 

Thanks!

[Atlas007]

Apple loops don't need to be stretched or edited with the Flex pitch tool since they are automatically adapting to your song tempo and key, providing that you had set those parameters upon importing them into your project tracks...

[jejune]

Hey thanks for the reply... I was experimenting with the splice at transients command and thought the only place I was able to do this was within the flex view and flew menu?

 

I suppose there are work arounds, like I could use the marquee tool to individually select transients and cut them one by one

 

However, if I wanted to work quickly, and splice all transients at one time, it seems as if it always alters my loop after doing this. It alters the sound of the loop. However, if I just import the loop, and cut using scissors or with locators, or change the length of the loop, the sound does not change.

 

Is there any way to splice at transients without changing the sound of the loop?

 

Thanks again for your help and reply!

[Jordi Torres]

You'll need to convert the apple loop to a regular AIFF file if you want to use Flex on it (same deal if you want to use fades on it or process destructively in the Audio File Editor). Select the region and in the tracks area and from the Edit menu choose Convert > Audio Region to New Audio File (or use the key command). Make sure you chnage the format to AIFF and save the file to your project's Audio Files folder.

 

PS: I'm assuming you're using Logic 10...

 

Click this link to your signature and add your system information:

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(most of that information can be found by choosing Logic Pro X > About Logic Pro X, and  > About This Mac)

 

J.

[David Nahmani]

You'll need to convert the apple loop to a regular AIFF file if you want to use Flex on it (same deal if you want to use fades on it or process destructively in the Audio File Editor).

Actually you should be able to use Flex and apply fades on an Apple Loop without first converting it.

 

Is there any way to splice at transients without changing the sound of the loop?

I would try to:

 

- Import the Apple Loop into a new empty project.

- Import the Loop's tempo information.

- Slice at transient markers.

[jejune]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the replies. It seems as if I want to keep the sound of the loop as it played in the loop browser I have to convert to loop to audio (I should have thought of that). Then detecting transients doesn't introduce artifacts into drum loop (the open hi hat on off beats was beginning to sound like a shaker).

 

To confirm what you said David, I am able to do these commands on apple loops (fade ins, speed ups, slow downs, splice at transients), but at the expense of the sound of the apple loop changing. (The open Hi Hat on off beats begins to sound like a shaker, and a delay effect is introduced). I suppose in some instance this could be an effect someone is looking for.

 

To retain the sound of the loop as it sounds in the loop browser, converting to audio seems to do the trick, just cant alter the tempo afterwards as far as I know, if I want the loop to continue to match song tempo. Why convert to AIFF and not WAV just out of curiosity? I'm guessing AIFF is a smaller file than WAV file??

 

Thanks for your help!!!

[Jordi Torres]

converting to audio seems to do the trick, just cant alter the tempo afterwards as far as I know, if I want the loop to continue to match song tempo. Why convert to AIFF and not WAV just out of curiosity? I'm guessing AIFF is a smaller file than WAV file??

 

For some reason Logic only allows one to convert Apple Loops to AIFF, not WAVE.

 

If you intended to use Flex on the loop, you can of course alter the tempo on the converted file using that (Flex Time).

 

To confirm what you said David, I am able to do these commands on apple loops (fade ins, speed ups, slow downs, splice at transients), but at the expense of the sound of the apple loop changing. (The open Hi Hat on off beats begins to sound like a shaker, and a delay effect is introduced). I suppose in some instance this could be an effect someone is looking for.

 

I'm guessing that if you do all those things with the Follow Tempo box in the inspector unchecked, then it would sound alright (without converting to an AIFF file). But in doing so the loop won't follow the project's tempo, of course.

 

J.

[jejune]

Hey thanks, yeah you are correct, unchecking the follow tempo box in the inspector makes it sound alright without converting to AIFF.

 

It threw me off because the different effect wasn't produced until I actually detected transients or spliced using transient detection. I could change the tempo of the loop to match project tempo, and the effect wasn't introduced until detecting transients. I would think it would be introduced when altering the tempo of the original loop to match project tempo, but this was in fact not the case. I could slow a 120 BPM loop down to 70 BPM without introducing those unwanted artifacts, but as soon as I detected transients the sound of the loop changed. Now I know I can convert to AIFF if I need to, or alter the original with the follow tempo box unchecked...

 

Awesome! Thanks your help!!

[Jordi Torres]

You're welcome!

 

J.

[camillo jr]

IME, it's not so much the detect transients process that changes the sound, (although I'm not saying that didn't happen with you) it's whatever flex mode (rhythmic, slicing, etc) that is chosen which affects the sound of apple loops. As long as I have no flex mode chosen, the loop sounds the same at slow tempos. (Mostly!)

 

That being said, if I want to slow a drum loop way down, I'll tend to use Slicing mode because the loop will sound tighter at slow speeds. Sometimes though, I like the way the artifacts changes the feel of the loop when I choose Rhythmic Flex mode.

 

Also, in the case of certain polyphonic loops like guitar or piano, if I just drop them into logic and their original tempo is quite different, they will sound glitchy (tempo depending) until Flex time is enabled for the loop AND the "complex" box is checked in the Inspector.

[jejune]

Working with this more, I'm not sure simply converting the apple loop to audio file will work for anyone else interested in doing this same thing....

 

If you slow the loop down to match project tempo, or change it anyway, before converting your loop to audio, the audio will match the tempo of original apple loop...

 

This is from logic express 8 manual, which I had before Logic Pro X (Is the logic pro X manual condensed? Didn't remember seeing anything in there on navigation screen shots)

 

Converting Apple Loops to Audio Files

 

When you convert an Apple Loop into an audio file, the resulting file may not play at the project’s current tempo and key settings. Rather, the new audio file will play at the original tempo and key of the Apple Loop.

This happens when you select an Apple Loop and choose Audio > Convert Regions to New Audio Files from the local Arrange menu, and change the File Format parameter in the ensuing window from “Original file type” to either WAVE or SDII. This creates a copy of the original Apple Loop file, but without the transient and category tags. The lack of these tags restricts file playback to the originally recorded tempo and key of the Apple Loop—not the tempo and key of the project.

If you want to turn an Apple Loop into an audio file that uses the project’s tempo and key settings, select the loop (or loops) and choose File > Export > Region as Audio File. Be sure to select the “Add resulting files to Audio Bin” checkbox to use the new file in your current project.



This will export the Apple Loop as a new audio file with all plug-in effect processing of the track/channel on which the Apple Loop is placed. To export the Apple Loop without these effects, bypass them before exporting the region.

You should note that although this new file will play at your project’s current tempo and key, it can’t follow subsequent tempo or key changes like other Apple Loops; such files are fixed at the project tempo and key—in use when the file was exported.

 

Basically, I think, you have to choose file export, region as audio file and check add resulting files to bin if you want the audio to follow tempo that you have changed your loop to... Does Bounce in place serve a similar function in logic pro X?

 

Well, hopefully this is helpful to anyone looking to do work of this type... I am finding it easier to edit drum tracks using take folders to alter hits and rhythms.... hope this helps!

[David Nahmani]

jejune, use Bounce in place to bounce your loop. It will allow you to remove any effect plug-ins by clicking a single checkbox, and without actually turning the plug-ins off on your channel strip.

[Jordi Torres]

Working with this more, I'm not sure simply converting the apple loop to audio file will work for anyone else interested in doing this same thing....

 

If you slow the loop down to match project tempo, or change it anyway, before converting your loop to audio, the audio will match the tempo of original apple loop...

 

Yes, that's to be expected. But in your case, since you were going to use Flex anyway, it doesn't really matter. At least I would think so.

 

J.

[jejune]

New to logic pro X, coming from logic express 8, i have to read more about flex to understand it better... didn't exist as far as I know in logic express 8...

 

thanks jordi!

[Atlas007]

If I remember well Flex was introduced with Logic Pro 9...

[camillo jr]

If I remember well Flex was introduced with Logic Pro 9...

 

Yes, it was and Flex was the biggest reason I jumped straight from LP7 to LP9.