Jump to content

Fader gain compensation for send signals


roblogic

Recommended Posts

Hello everyone,

 

I am having a workflow issue when mixing that hope I can get some help here to resolve it.

 

Is there a way or formula of whatever to use to compensate for the overall gain increase caused by using a SEND ??. Or is it possible to have the SENDS displaying dB instead of -100 to 6?

 

Since the SENDS are of a scale from -100 to 0, I can not see how to compensate it from the fader precisely... For instance I would like to decrease the fader 2dB if the SEND is increased to -40, so that the sum of both signals are equal or very similar to the original without the send.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The send is in db's.

 

Set up a send on one of your tracks. Option+Click the Send Knob so it sets at 0.0 db. Notice that your peak level on the main track and on your Aux channel strip has the same peak?

 

When you set your Send to 0.0 db you are sending an equal amount of signal to the send as is being output directly from your main track that you are sending from so you've double your signal volume. Now when you adjust the send level from there, you can figure out how much to compensate for your overall signal including the send. Obviously, any plug-ins that you add to the Aux channel strip can become a factor in the equation so it's not going to be an exact science but the main thing is, use your ears and don't be too concerned with numbers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If a send is set to post-fader or post-pan, the level of the signal being sent will always be in proportion to the level of the fader. Here are some examples, all with reference to a signal that peaks at -6 dB(fs).

 

• Fader at 0dB (unity), send at 0dB (unity). Signal at output of send will peak at -6 dB.

• Fader at 0dB, send at -10 dB. Signal at output of send will peak at -16 dB.

• Fader at -10 dB, send at -10dB. Signal at output of send will peak at -26 dB.

 

So with post-fader and post-pan sends, the amount of signal being sent will always follow the fader. However, if your send is set to pre-fader, the level of the signal being sent is not influenced at all by the position of the fader. Again, with a signal peaking at -6dB...

 

• Fader at 0dB (unity, and inconsequential), send at 0dB (unity). Signal at output of send will peak at -6 dB.

• Fader off (inconsequential), send at -10 dB. Signal at output of send will peak at -16 dB.

• Fader at +6 (inconsequential), send at -20dB. Signal at output of send will peak at -26 dB.

 

 

HTH

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was inspired to write that up based on your reply Blue!

 

Pre-fader sends are used in a number of different situations...

 

1) when sending signal to a reverb to make a part sound distant (i.e. lots of reverb signal but little of the dry signal). So here, you've got a pre-fader send sending signal to a reverb hosted in an Aux. With the fader all the way down, turn up the send. You'll hear only the reverb'd signal. Turning up the fader now introduces dry signal into the mix. Now you can control the perceived distance between the up-close sound (dry signal) and the space it's playing in (reverb).

 

2) headphone mixes: say you have a performer in your studio that wants to hear the click screaming loud (and you don't LOL). Start by setting up the basic headphone mix: creating a post-fader sends on each of your channels that output to a new, unused bus. That creates a new Aux. Set that Aux to outputs 3/4 (assuming you have a multi-output interface). That output pair will feed their headphone amp. Then, set all of those sends to 0dB. This replicates the mix you're used to listening to in the headphone mix. Now, set the Click instrument to a PRE-FADER send outputting to the same bus, and turn the fader on the click all the way down. Now you don't have to listen to the click coming out of Output 1/2 (stereo output) but by turning up that pre-fader send, you can feed the click signal to their headphones at whatever level they want.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was inspired to write that up based on your reply Blue!

 

:D

 

Pre-fader sends are used in a number of different situations...

 

1) when sending signal to a reverb to make a part sound distant (i.e. lots of reverb signal but little of the dry signal). So here, you've got a pre-fader send sending signal to a reverb hosted in an Aux. With the fader all the way down, turn up the send. You'll hear only the reverb'd signal. Turning up the fader now introduces dry signal into the mix. Now you can control the perceived distance between the up-close sound (dry signal) and the space it's playing in (reverb).

 

Nice! I suppose you could also play with Panning the dry one way and the reverb another to have even more flexibility.

 

2) headphone mixes: say you have a performer in your studio that wants to hear the click screaming loud (and you don't LOL). Start by setting up the basic headphone mix: creating a bunch of post-fader sends on all of your channels that output to a new, unused bus. That creates a new Aux. Set that Aux to outputs 3/4 (assuming you have a multi-output interface). That will feed their headphone amp. Then, set all of those sends to 0dB. This replicates the mix you're used to listening to in the headphone mix. Now, set the Click instrument to a PRE-FADER send outputting to the same bus, and turn the fader on the click all the way down. Now you don't have to listen to the click coming out of Output 1/2 (stereo output) but by turning up that pre-fader send, you can feed the click signal to their headphones at whatever level they want.

 

Nice tip as well. Personally, I never use a click when recording my vocals (sometimes I use it, only when laying down the music). It would just distract me when recording my vocals. I prefer to follow the music. But, it's a great tip for those who record other vocalists that may prefer to hear the click.

 

Thanks for the lesson Ski.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was inspired to write that up based on your reply Blue!

 

Pre-fader sends are used in a number of different situations...

 

1) when sending signal to a reverb to make a part sound distant (i.e. lots of reverb signal but little of the dry signal). So here, you've got a pre-fader send sending signal to a reverb hosted in an Aux. With the fader all the way down, turn up the send. You'll hear only the reverb'd signal. Turning up the fader now introduces dry signal into the mix. Now you can control the perceived distance between the up-close sound (dry signal) and the space it's playing in (reverb).

 

2) headphone mixes: say you have a performer in your studio that wants to hear the click screaming loud (and you don't LOL). Start by setting up the basic headphone mix: creating a post-fader sends on each of your channels that output to a new, unused bus. That creates a new Aux. Set that Aux to outputs 3/4 (assuming you have a multi-output interface). That output pair will feed their headphone amp. Then, set all of those sends to 0dB. This replicates the mix you're used to listening to in the headphone mix. Now, set the Click instrument to a PRE-FADER send outputting to the same bus, and turn the fader on the click all the way down. Now you don't have to listen to the click coming out of Output 1/2 (stereo output) but by turning up that pre-fader send, you can feed the click signal to their headphones at whatever level they want.

 

Nice tricks!! Another use for the pre fader sends is for the side chain when you want the signal to reach the ducking compressor to remain invariable irrespective of the fader movements. So you can set your desired compressor settings to duck a pad for instance from a kick drum and with the pre fader send you make sure that the same amount of signal will reach the compressor all the time so the ducking effect will be consistent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The purpose of the thread was to know the figures to compensate any increase of Send values to be able to determine the amount of Dry / Wet effect judging from consistent or similar volumes, minimazing the fact that any louder signal may trick the brain to sound better.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The purpose of the thread was to know the figures to compensate any increase of Send values to be able to determine the amount of Dry / Wet effect judging from consistent or similar volumes, minimazing the fact that any louder signal may trick the brain to sound better.

 

What part of this thread dissatisfies you? There are three replies that directly address the "purpose" of this thread.

 

You'll have to excuse the occasional tangents. These things happen in a conversation.

 

Everyone is trying to help you and each other.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nothing dissatisfies me. I never meant to sound this way;) just wanted to explain a bit further the whole point just in case it was not clear enough.

 

OK.

 

I misunderstood.

 

But I'm not sure how it could be explained better than I, Ski and Shiver tried to explain it.

 

I can only encourage you to re-read those posts and then experiment with Logic until you understand the relationship between tracks and Aux's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...