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Latency Between Software Instruments


logic8mine

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I've never experienced this before. My project contains an instance of N.I.'s Battery 3, and another of N.I's Abbey Roads 70's Drummer in a Kontakt Multi-Instrument. As mapping is a different for both, I have identical MIDI regions on each track. So that it will sound like one kit, I have muted the bass drum and snare in Battery 3 and all toms and cymbals in 70's Drummer.

 

Playing either kit by itself, the drums are in sync with the music, however there significant latency between the two instruments themselves. However, the only way to sync the two tracks is to move the notes for Battery 3 ahead of the measure by as many as 70 to 90 ticks...

 

Plug-in compensation is set to all. There is no track delay being used in the project. Any suggestions on how to rectify?

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Thanks Eric,

I posting a pic. 8)

 

I used bounce in place to record the same region from both V.I's. The Abbey Roads actually cuts off the first note. The audio begins halfway through the first bas drum hit, if that makes sense. Anyway, I have been using Logic since L8 and have never experienced this before so excuse my ignorance but, what do I learn here that I didn't know when I had to move the MIDI forward on the Abbey Roads track so that it would sync with the rest of the song?

 

p.s.- even though the file reads 'Pianist' it is the battery 3 plug-in.

967815703_ScreenShot2014-02-03at4_53_57PM.thumb.png.c3362cd18eab1c28298745c35064116a.png

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I'm sorry one other thing: it seems to be just in this project that it occurs also. I have used these together in the past with no issues. And, before i bounced the audio, I created an empty project, instantiated both plug-ins, used an identical MIDI drum region and the where perfectly synced...
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Sorry for the delay...

 

So what you are saying is that you have a MIDI note at 2.2.1.1.

ARD hits are prior in time to the MIDI note. correct?

Battery 3 is dead on.

 

You also state that it is project related.

How are you using the instrument plug-ins, are they in Multi Output mode? Do you have any additional effect plug-ins on the different Aux channels if you are?

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Thanks for getting back to me.

The music is not hard quantized at all but, yes. Battery 3 is hitting slightly behind the beat and the ARD is hitting way before the actual MIDI note.

 

Battery 3 is just a stereo instantiation on a software track with N.I's VC-2A Compressor, Channel EQ and a Limiter. ARD is in a Kontakt Multi-Instrument, Multi-Output instantiation. Each of Kontakt's VI's gets it's own stereo Aux. ARD's stereo Aux duplicates B3's effects. All other V.I.'s in Kontakt hit on the beat (Alicia Keys, Scarbee Jay-Bass Slapped and Fingered, Session Horns, Vintage Organ)

 

There is only one other V.I. in the project- Sculpture's Funky Lick Strat. It too is on the beat...

 

The setup for the Drums is the same in other projects where I have utilized both. However, on occasion, I have bussed them to the same Aux.

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There you go.

So as far as I can tell remotely it is a draw back of Logic's PLC implementation.

You could test this solution:

Make sure you have the exactly same plug-ins on all the kontakt tracks. Disable the plug-ins that you don't need on a track by track basis but leave them inactive in the slots. This will send the exact same latency value to Logic throughout the different outputs of your instrument.

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Well, thanks again Eric,

As stated earlier, I have just never experienced this before. That is, I have maxed out my I/O Buffer size because I am in my final editing and mixing stages and am no longer recording audio or playing software instruments live. It never hit me that this could occur- latency between software instruments or their respective outputs, especially with projects this size- there aren't tons of tracks, V.I.'s, etc... it never hit me that this could occur. I do have AGM by AmpleSound which recommends a track 50ms delay offset but that applies in all situations whether playing live, recording, playback, etc...

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You're welcome logic8mine! :)

 

The land of plug-in latency compensation can be pretty confusing.

The problem you are experiencing is not related to different instruments. It is only related to how Multi-output tracks are compensated.

 

There are several workarounds. Like I said earlier you can trick the PLC engine by having bypassed plug-ins on the aux channels.

Another is to bounce the instrument's tracks in place without any plug-ins into different audio tracks. That will help too.

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hey guys, been reading this thread.....a friend of mine experienced a similar issue with latency while using Superior Drummer......he uses the multi-output mode and sets up AUX tracks for the individual drums......for the past year he has opened up UAD plugs on those AUX tracks with no issues....then all of a sudden, in the last week or so, he has massive latency issues......we've tried everything...it doesnt happen when the SD2 is set to stereo output.

 

so eventually, the work around for him was just what was mentioned above.....he converted the midi aux tracks to audio files and that worked.....BUT, we still dont know why this happened "now".

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Well, I know now not to open any of my Logic 9 projects in Logic X. This is twice in a week now that I have experienced this problem and this second time is even more exaggerated than the first. These are not by any means large projects, neither does this new project contain two separate drum samplers and the audio is all over the place- on the beat, behind the beat, before the beat. For whatever reason, L9 handled these projects without a hitch... I'm pretty hot about having to change the way I work.
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