Very confused about how to get a REAL string quartet sound

[Ket]

HI,

 

Thanks for reading, and hope you can help. As I'm a newbie and very confused about all this. I'm also quite new to forums etc. so thanks for bearing with any faux pas i may make (':o')

 

The situation:

 

I have a guitar and bass line recorded. I wanted to add a "string section". I want it to sound like a REAL string quartet (or as near as i can get-as i realise that in reality recording a real string quartet is best BUT who has the money hey )

 

I want to "play" it via a keyboard. ( so i guess this is a midi thing really ?)

 

 

 

The question:

 

How do i get that/those sounds? what tools/instruments do i use? all the instruments (that i can see) in Logic have mad/quirky sounds - great - but nothing that sounds like a real string quartet?

 

As I've said, I'm very new to all this, and i really don't know what i have to use to get these sounds ?

 

Thanks in advance for all your help and comments.

 

Ket

[stevecowley]

Ok, have a look in your instruments - in amongst the cool synths and noise-makers, you should find the EXS24 sampler. I forget what string sounds are included, but have a look and you should see a few options of more 'real' sounding instruments. That's because they are made up of samples of real instruments, rather than being synthesised versions.

 

If you don't like any of the string sounds that come with the EXS24, there are sample libraries available which you can import into the EXS. Perhaps someone else could advise on this...

 

Hope that helps.

 

Steve

[Jope]

Good instruments/plugins/samples are just one part of what you need - I can't give you any advice here. But a real String quartet means four people playing and modelling single notes with all their musical skills, and if you want it to sound realistic you will have to expend much effort in individual modulation of every note, including vibrato, volume progress, slight pitch aberrations etc. If you contrive to do so, even sythetic sawtooth based sounds will start to feel "realistic".

[Ket]

Hi guys, thanks so much for the replies.

I had a look at the ESX24, and I'm sure that this is the way to go. (i.e sample libraries and what not)

 

So now I'm sitting here looking a bit silly as (with other virtual instruments) the little drop down arrow on the top left leads to " Settting / the actual sounds" but here it just says Load settings?

 

where would all these "settings" / samples be on my hard disk / set up? (again I'm sure i look silly but it's all a bit new to me)

 

I'm running logic pro 7.2 - and I've installed the software as best it has asked me (installed the DVD 1 and then DVD2, the "contents" disc - which i assume pre-installs the sample libraries)

 

Thanks again for your help with all this.

 

Ket

[Jope]

Go to page 520 of the Plugin Reference, "Loading and Playing an Instrument": "You can select one of the Sampler Instruments by clicking on the pull-down menu above the silver panel area (directly above the Cutoff knob)." Later you can save the instrument setting and the used samples into their own folders in your project folder when you save your song as a project. This takes additional hard disk space, but you no longer have to rely on correctly installed libraries and you can take the complete song including all samples wherever you want.

[Ket]

Hi Jope and Steve,

 

thanks so much for that guys.... I'll check that out when i get back home later

 

I'm really looking forward to checking it out... it's so frustrating to have the ideas (and play the guitar parts etc) but not be able to "reaslise" your ideas, only because i'm learning the software (it's a huge package hey)

 

Thanks also for the handy hint with saving the samples and their settings in the project folder - good house keeping rule i think (I read in the plugins manual - that they normally get saved in the ESX folder) it'll make it very useful going forward.

 

Ket

[simonphoenix]

What Jope says is true...

 

But it may not be necessarily as hard as it may sound. Here's a few basic pointers assuming you've found a decent Sound Library... which, BTW The Orchestra Jam Pack isn't bad, it's not brilliant, but very workable... Or the Garrian Personal Orchestra is very good value for money and is used by alot of professionals. Anyway...

 

This will work for most kind of arrangements too, but it is best if you break it down into individual sections like in this following example.

 

Step 1: Just play around with a decent string patch(sound) until you come up with something that is roughly what you want. Record it as MIDI, to use it as a scratch track and the basis for the actual recording. Care needs to be taken so that you're highs & lows done't go beyond what the actual section instruments are capable of producing.

 

Step 2: Edit your recording and tweek it just to get it sounding passable, don't spend too much time on it yet

 

Step 3: Figure whether you want a small chamber quartet type of sound or a larger string ensemble.

 

Step 4: You really want to recreate an ensemble, instrument for instrument. Meaning if it's a quartet, you'd want to have your 4 different string instruments, if it's an 80 piece... You want to have 80 of them!!!... Ideally, but there short cuts you can take in the instance... So getting to it, find and assign the best sounding instruments you can find, hopefully they also allow for performance variations, like staccato, pizzicato, legato, trills...etc

 

Step 5: Take the recording you did in Step 1 & 2 and copy it to each instrument part. Then open it in the Matrix or Score Editor... I prefer matrix though I can read music, it's just quiker and more efficiant in most cases... Then mute all notes but the one you want played by that particular instrument.

 

Hint: The topline or melody is usually assigned to the highest sounding instrument, and of course the bottom line to the bass instrument, then divide any middle notes up with the midrange instruments. Once again make sure that any individual part stays within an instrument's playable range. If you have more instruments in your section then you do in your chords/arrangements then you may want to do some doubling up or leave an instrument out.

 

Step 6: Do some more tweeking, and at this stage you may want to play around with you're different articulations, Some work just by setting different velocities other's by MIDI controllers. So here for the most part when you've played around with it and you know how you want it to sound, record it in as Region Automation - if you can. That way it will go where ever the Region goes. Just assign another track to the instrument, record you're changes and then when you're happy with it Merge it in with the original track.

 

Step 7: Do this with all of your Instruments until you have what you want.

 

Step 8: Repeat this process for each Section

 

Step 9: Apply some EQ if needed, but a subtle variation from one instrument to the next will help make it sound more convincing. Also Pan each instrumet to where they should appear according to convention

 

Step 10 Assign each section to it's own Bus, that will make them easier to handle but it will allow you to EQ or compress it lightly as a group.

 

Step 11: When that' done maybe ad a slight bit of Chorus or Ensemble, but only slight and add a nice sounding Reverb appropriate to the size of the room you want them in. Space Desgner can work well for this. You should also assign the efects to it's own Bus and use the Channel Strip sends to tap into it.

 

 

Note: articulation and dynamics are very important to get that natural sound you want, so put as much time as you can into it. For bigger sections with multiple instruments playing the same part. Just copy and paste from one instrument, tweek it a little so that it is a bit different from it's counterpart, even it's timing and note durations. And on top of that you may want to slightly detune it by a few cents.

 

Try and choose a slightly different sounding instrument each time, if you can, when using multiple versions of the same instrument. This is where slightly different EQ'ing can help out a bit. Some libraries also offer a multiple instrument version in itself, that's also worth while considering and will reduce a bit of the work you will have to do.

 

And if it doesn't sound like it's working, leave it have a break from it and approach it the following day. If it still doesn't sound like it's working just try changing you arrangements slightly, or even what instrument plays what part. It may also have to do with any processing or effects you've applied. Don't swamp it with Reverb, but then you can't exactly have 80 musos squeezed into a room the size of a vocal both either!!

 

It takes a bit of time and practice to get the skills together, but it's generally not too hard. It just gets more involving the bigger the ensemble is.

 

Sorry if there are things I have left out... or any typos for that matter, but after writing all that, I couldn't be bothered going back to edit it!!!

[Jope]

What Jope says is true...

 

But it may not be necessarily as hard as it may sound.

 

Wow... If mine sounded hard, what does yours?

...But It's a really well-done guide that was instructional to me, too!

[simonphoenix]

LMAO!!!

 

It only really started as a few pointers, the next thing I know, I've just written a bloody essay!!!

 

.... And I have work to do!!....

 

Did I go overboard??... LOL

[erfmufn]

Heh Simon thats awesome.. do you work with string / orchestra sounds a lot? I've done a few practice arrangements, but have never gotten down to the level of "humanizing" each instrument by.. well adding little flaws.. I think thats a great idea and would love to hear some examples in the listening forum if anyone has any.

 

And thanks for the essay its much appreciated!

[Simon R.]

It's very simple. To get a real sounding string quartet sound, hire a string quartet. Solo strings are very hard to mimic with samples.

[curtisnel]

Hi,

 

for a simple start get solo instruments, or a string quartet, from sf2midi.com, also do a search on *soundfont*.

 

Ray

[relaxnfade]

Short of hiring a string quartet, you could buy the Vienna Symphonic Library and load up that into ESX24 (if your Mac is powerful enough), but I have a feeling that hiring a string quartet from your local university or something might be a bit cheaper.

 

Listen to the demos on that site in the demo zone... all the stuff on there was done with a regular sequencer (IE, Logic Pro). The sounds are unbelievably realistic.

[stillcrazy]

Man your right the Vienna library is awesome!!!!

[erfmufn]

Yeh how good are they? Just listening to the demo on the site now.. brilliant.

[simonphoenix]

Yeah the Vienna is most probably the best sounding Library out there!!!... But hell is it bloody expensive!!!

 

That's why I suggested Garritan, it's still pricey, but not out of the ball park.

 

Here's hoping that Apple has out done them selves with the next version of Logic.

 

 

We can always dream can't we...!!!!

[stillcrazy]

Ya,, for me it would be worth saving up for such great sounds...

You can do so much with it....

[simonphoenix]

I just don't have a house to morgage for it!!!...

[Zicky]

no one is mentioning the East West Symphonic Orchestra XP, The Big Fish Orchestral, or the Peter Ziegsfeld strings.....they are all great choices......

[simonphoenix]

Of course it's easy to suggest to use a real string ensemble, but some things need to be considered.

 

You need at least a decent space, along with appropriate microphones, and an interface with enough channels to handle the audio. You also need good players, with good instruments. And have areal firm idea on the articulation and expression you want, even the amount of rosin you want them to put on their strings. And be prepared for a little trial and error.

 

Once you've payed for that you'll be wondering to yourelf why you didn't spend that money on your Vienna String Library in the first place!!! At least you can reuse that. This is why recording the real thing is mostly kept to high budget productions. Imagine if you had to emply an orchestra!!

[erfmufn]

I actually have the privilege of recording a orchestra soon. It will be a live outdoor event and I am involved with the amplification as it will not be an amphitheater (some streets are being closed). It will most likely be a multiplication of omni directional mic's placed throughout the various sections and run through a MOTU 828 mk2 to Logic Pro (MBP).

 

The recording isn't actually part of the job, but I figured if I'm going to mic it all up, I may as well route the motu digital through logic and feed the analog mix back to the desk and have something interesting to play with later.

[adrian.roberts]

I would have to agree with everyone about the Vienna strings, and the East West package, But If you would like something that sounds amazing for $100 , check out the Garageband Jam Pack 4 Symphony Orchestra... You may think i'm crazy, but the string sounds in this package are very nicely recorded. Plus, when you audition the Apple Loops, and select one that you like, you get the instrument that created it, the samples, and the channel strip settings that were used. And you can also just load them straight into EXS24.