Logic Pro LIVE

Hi forum,

Am i asking too much with the following set up for live performance?

With the arrange window open on loop and record (hardware synths output to outboard mixer)

1) Play a few bars on Ultranova keyboard and record midi in logic so it plays it back.

2) same with Kord R3

3) Same as step one but with mopho and oxygen midi controller

4) Use master midi keyboard (novation sl mkii) to play virtual instruments.

5) Use master midi keyboard to control kurzwiel using midi out on novation

I read/tried out ideas from this long thread and leads me to believe its not easy/possible.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5174298?start=0&tstart=0

The novation is connected via usb and it doesnt really play nicely with midi channels, no matter what channel i set it to it plays the track selected to on the arrange window.

I played about with midi environment and managed to get certain controllers to play certain tracks..but no real joy with the ultranova mabe its bevause im using the isb to tranmit midi.

I tried sending the ultranova to a transformer to play only on a certain midi channel then routed it to the sequencer but it played on every channel!!!!

Any suggestions please as ive spent days and i mean solid hours per day trying to do this. some have suggested ableton but im too lazy to switch...

Im using logic pro 9 on a mac mini.

That article looks it should work, but alternately I would recommend either recording using the Novation as a controller for the external synths or just set up tracks in arrange window and switch the focus track to the hardware synth's track and then record from that keyboard. One of the best things about the SL is the ability to choose your tracks in the Main window.

I don't have time to do a complicated write up, but if next week you still need help bump this topic up and I'll try to put together a post on how I use Logic live. I get away with some pretty complicated midi stuff, and there is more ability to trigger things live that you might imagine. My show is very live and while it is typically all software (save your self the hassle, just do it in software for live shows) I have had various hardware configurations. But seriously, software. If you have some 'must have' sounds by MainStage and use the Autosampler feature. It is worth it's weight in gold.

thanks for reply.

I can get by changing tracks in the arrange, hadnt thought about using the novation to change tracks.

Its clear i need to spend some time reading the novation manual as i couldnt get it to talk to the kurzwiel only on one midi channel, even when changing the midi channel on the specific port. I have to keep the midi port disabled using automap mode then disable automap mode so i can play on the kurzwiel .

Im sure others (myself included) would like to know your logic live method though...

Will check out mainstage - never used it.

The ability to select tracks is the main reason I use Automap. You can also assign any other controller to go up and down tracks. When I play live my goal is to NEVER touch my computer. To that end I use Automap but I also use a Logidy foot pedal.

http://www.logidy.com/?pid=1

I also have programmed patch change commands to scroll up and down the Main window.

One quick tip, if you want to record a midi part and have it loop (copy) itself to a certain point in the song create an empty region where you want the copies to end, the region will act as a barrier.

Alright, I’ll do my best to describe how I use Logic Live. I use a combination of straight playback, triggered playback, recording midi parts in real time and real time effects. My goal is to never have to touch the computer on stage, I’m not a fan of watching someone checking the email. What I do isn’t really possible without extensive use of the environment. Some songs have a definite form and some have a lot of room for improvising and jamming. Some of my methods were inspired by how Thomas Dolby was using Logic live. He has a Max/MSP plug in that allows him to play a part and have the part populated where he wants it to play. I don’t have that and have NO interest in learning Max/MSP (quick, name the last really good piece of music you heard created in Max/MSP, especially something you would listen to twice) So not having his tool I reverse engineered and figured out that I can record a midi part, have it loop to the end of song (or wherever) and set the automation to mute the part where I DIDN’T want it to play. Different road, same destination. This works well for songs with a defined beginning, middle and end. As an aside, I’m don’t always find looping performances interesting because they often have no B section. A handy tip for pre-determining the end of a looped region is draw an empty region where you want the looping to stop, the empty region acts like a wall.

Once that nut was cracked I had to figure out how to quickly record multiple instruments on stage without it getting boring. Dolby has an advantage of people being familiar with his music and excited to hear each part being added, I don’t. This is where the Environment is crucial. As an example, for my song ‘Radio Flyer’ I record the bass line, pad part and an argeggiated type part all from the same 5 octave keyboard. I will create a layer in the Environment for splits, create a main midi instrument and then midi instruments for each instrument I want. (I’m not going to explain the basics of how to create instruments and cabling, those basic concepts have explanations elsewhere) Once I have the split set up I can record an 8 bar loop of each part have have that looped to the end of the song, or wherever I want it to stop. Because I’ve pre-arranged the mute points with automation the parts play only when I want. In this song I also trigger some parts because I like to keep things as live as possible. I was using Touch Tracks for the drums and had the drum pad buttons on my Novation Remote SL keyboard assigned to the different things I wanted to trigger. I’ve since changed some of that as Touch Tracks has a significant limitation, it won’t continue to play a part the playhead cycles back to the start of the cycle. (there are a couple of solutions for this) I’ve since programmed the drum patters I was triggering in to UltraBeat and it’s own sequencer. Look up Touch Tracks, there is a lot you can do with them.

Sound on Sound has a good explanation of Touch Tracks here http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec04/articles/logicnotes.htm

There is another way to trigger midi regions using David’s method. I’ve taken this further and by using a channel splitter you can assign 16 different instruments. As long as the notes in the midi region are on the channel you want you can send any region to any of the 16 instruments. By assigning multiple lanes to the same key you can trigger as many parts at a time as you want. This method is a beautiful way to keep things live and change them up. The only real drawback is, unlike Touch Tracks, you can’t have regions wait until the beginning of a bar to trigger, the timing is all up to you. My preference for triggering the regions is a Arturia BeatStep. I like the BeatStep (which really is a great controller) because you can assign either notes or CC data to the pads and the pads can be set to toggle on and off, and they light up when they are toggled on so I can see what I have playing. Before I found David’s article I figured out how to do a similar thing with audio tracks and using the pads to trigger mute on and off.

David’s method is here viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3570

I also use the pads of the BeatStep for applying effects in read time. Because the pads can transmit polyphonic aftertouch it is easy to assign a pad to either a channel strips volume or to and effects send. Using either a fader object or a transformer object you can convert the incoming note data to fader data. To know what fader data you need just cable out to a monitor on the channel you are setting up. (Monitors will make you life so much easier. In addition to using them for seeing what is coming in and out of things you can use them as splitters) Faders can be easier to set up once you get your head around them but transformer objects let you scale the data, which is handy for setting minimum and maximum amounts.

One thing I’ve been setting up lately is a virtual BeatStep in the environment. Using knobs and buttons I’ve recreated the controls of the BeatStep and this will allow me to work faster when setting up performances. The goal for this is to be able to not have to keep reprogramming the individual knobs and and pads on the BeatStep for each song. After lots of experimenting I find cabling things to be more reliable and predictable than using Controller Assignments. Yes, Controller Assignments are quick and easy but they are global and I need different things for different projects.

One of the drawbacks of faders and transformers is that they won’t do NRPN or whatever it is that RetroSynth uses. For these I have been using either Controller Assignments (or Smart Controls) or if all I want to do is apply a filter then I might use the Auto Filter plug and assign a knob to that. This is also handy for effecting audio tracks.

A key thing for using Logic live and not touching your computer is being able to either select specific tracks or scroll up and down through tracks using some sort of controller. I use a Remote SL with Automap, which generally has worked really well for me, especially for the transport and track selection facilities it has. There are a few ways to scroll through tracks. I use the Remote but I also use a foot pedal by Logidy. You can also use just about any controller and program in a key command to for track up and down. The other CRUCIAL thing for me is being able to move the markers with a controller. Currently I have the two drum pad buttons on my SL programmed for that (forwards and backwards, specifically ‘Set Locators by Next Marker and Enable Cycle’ and the previous marker in case I overshoot where I’m trying to go.

A way to select specific tracks without a Remote SL is here viewtopic.php?f=1&t=111642&p=577729#p577729

When setting up a song for live work I often take a hatchet to the arrangement of the song and will setup markers to be the A section, B section, so on and so forth. This will mean making some decisions about the form of the song but by cutting down the sections you can give your self time and room to record parts, fix mistakes and jam around. I try to have as few markers as possible so when i’m forwarding the markers I have to hit the command as little as possible. Coloring the markers is important. I typically color them red, green, blue (check out my name) but will typically color a marker where I’m recording a part in red.

This is just part of what I do. I’ve also started using Delay Designer as a 4 bar looper (there is a preset) and use a variety of methods to send what I’m playing to the looper plug and have controllers adjusting the amount of the echo (a slow fade works nicely) and to adjust the filter in real time.

How I’m doing it is pretty complex (you should see the amount of transformer and faders in some of the projects) but hopefully what I’ve laid out will give you some idea of just what you can do. Yes, just about all of this is easier in Live, but I don’t have the time to learn Live well and then convert my Logic projects in to Ableton. I’ll learn it some day but that will be for new live things and not my existing material. Plus I use Logic’s own synths a lot.